Probiotics: Should Your Baby Be Taking Probiotics? with James Marin, RD, EN and Dahlia Marin, RDN, LD

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Dahlia Marin (38s):

So it is very hard to standardize that amount of probiotic, those strains of probiotic because we all have different predispositions to different things. And again, just trying to throw probiotics at something might not solve the issues.

Katie Ferraro (52s):

Hey there, I'm Katie Ferraro, registered dietitian, college nutrition professor and mom of seven specializing in baby led Weaning. Here on the Baby led weaning with Katie Ferraro podcast. I help you strip out all of the noise and nonsense about feeding, giving you the confidence and knowledge you need to give your baby a safe start to solid foods using baby led weaning. What are your thoughts on probiotics for babies? Is this stressing you out a little bit? Like there's so much talk about gut health and the microbiome and supplements. It's so easy to start wondering like, oh my gosh, are probiotics something else I need to like add to the list of stuff I gotta get into my baby's body?

Katie Ferraro (1m 36s):

There was just this whole article in the Wall Street Journal last month about baby's gut health being the new obsession for babies and for startups. Like there's actual companies making testing kits that you can buy for your baby's microbiome. Is this really necessary? Okay, In this episode we're gonna cut through all the hype to talk about what parents really need to know about probiotics for babies. Like what matters for your baby's gut health? Are probiotics truly necessary or can we get by with just doing breast milk? Or if we don't do that formula and then some real foods. My guests today are James and Dahlia Marin. These guys are amazing. They are registered dieticians, married to each other.

Katie Ferraro (2m 19s):

Like I can't even like do the dishes with my husband without wanting to murder him. How would you possibly work with your husband who's also a dietician? These guys do it. They're the best. They're the dietician team behind Married to Health. James and Dahlia specialize in gut health and their dietician, you guys. So they know their stuff. They've got this really warm, practical way of explaining kind of gross stuff like your baby's gut and their microbiota and they're gonna talk about probiotics and they're not gonna make it feel overwhelming. Okay, this is a conversation we actually had a couple of years ago, but because probiotics are so super hot right now and everything that they're teaching about is still incredibly current, I wanted to bump it up to the top of your feed because this topic is so relevant and you need to be learning from registered dietician like James and Dahlia because again, they're married to health but they know their stuff.

Katie Ferraro (3m 3s):

So if probiotics for your baby's gut have been on your mind, I want you to settle in and take a listen to this conversation. Here's the episode. Do Babies Need Probiotics With James Marin and Dahlia Marin from Married to Health? Well hi James and Dahlia, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. I am so excited to get to interview both of you together.

James Marin (3m 27s):

Yes.

Dahlia Marin (3m 28s):

Thank you so much for having us Katie. We're so excited.

Katie Ferraro (3m 31s):

I just have to say right off of the bat, like I so admire that you guys can work together. I, I, I can't like even stand like doing like bills with my husband. I don't know how you guys managed to run a practice together. You're both registered dietician. I don't know if, if I've ever met a married dietician couple. My, my own mom is a dietician, which is how I actually got interested in the field and that's like a close enough relationship for me. So could you just tell us like a little bit about your background? How did you get to where you are? How did you come to work together and both be dietician? It's such a cool story.

James Marin (4m 2s):

Yeah, it is. It's great. I'll let, I'll let my wife go first. She's great at telling the story.

Katie Ferraro (4m 6s):

That's the right answer. Correct. He's smart.

James Marin (4m 8s):

That's how we work together. I just go, okay honey, you can, yeah, you're amazing. After

Dahlia Marin (4m 12s):

12 years he's learned. Yes. So you know, my journey began where I was an unhealthy child. I grew up first generation American, very acculturated diet. That led me eventually to simultaneously being diagnosed as a teenager with obesity, pre-diabetes, hyperlipidemia, polycystic ovarian syndrome, and an autoimmune thyroid condition. So my journey to nutrition really started with myself. I just started researching the topic because I knew that having a pharmacy to take every day was not the destiny I wanted for myself. I looked around me, I saw others in my family and others who I knew doing that and I just didn't want it for myself. So I started looking into nutrition and started improving my own eating habits.

Dahlia Marin (4m 54s):

I ended up taking a nutrition course at a community college. At that time I was a psychology major in college and I just fell in love with it. So I decided I'm going to switch. I want to pursue dietetics, nutrition and dietetics. And it's funny because the same college I ended up transferring to where James and I met, I initially got accepted to that college. I decided not to go there. So I ended up having to take an extra year to graduate. But on my very first day of college, I met James.

James Marin (5m 21s):

Yes. And college there. And same, I, I grew up very unhealthy. I was, I'm third generation here in Dahlia's Egyptian, I'm Hispanic and you know, third generation here. So I grew up on a heavy load of Pop-Tarts and sugary cereal and my mother didn't breastfeed me and I was, I remember drinking the pink antibiotics like almost every month 'cause I had something wrong with me. So I was what I would consider a typical American, right? And so with that, as I got older, I was morbidly obese in elementary school and junior high I had, you know, joint pain. I had asthma and I was like, there has to be like, I started feeling like what is wrong with me? And I, I started exercising and I'm like, oh, exercising makes me feel better.

James Marin (6m 2s):

And through that I started getting into sports, I played football and towards the end of high school going into college I was like, I need to, I love this, I want to do this for my life. I wanna become a nutritionist. Or then I found out about a registered dietician, transferred to Cal Poly and then met Dahlia. So we were both kind of on our health journeys and then we met together and continued it. Yes,

Katie Ferraro (6m 23s):

This is so cool. Like I have to have you guys on because your focus is a little bit different. You have a holistic nutrition practice, which to be honest isn't a lot of time associated with dietician. They have the kind of reputation of being the food police and they're in the hospitals with the white coats delivering you jello and telling you what not to eat. And I think that that's a really outdated stereotype of dieticians and you guys are the embodiment of where the field and the profession is going. So could you share a little bit about what you do in your professional practice now together and then how you got there? 'cause I'm sure you didn't just start a private practice like right out of your internship, although you could If you wanted to because you are the experts in nutrition.

Dahlia Marin (6m 57s):

Thank you. No, this was always a vision. James and I talked about, we always knew we were different even while going to school, even while completing our undergrad in higher education, we were different. So we knew that we wanted to do things differently. I had a hospital job initially James worked in public health initially and we just saw all the red tape that was involved with that. We saw the things that we loved and maybe didn't love. So we wanted to take all the things that we did love and elevate them and make something that was really unique and really great in our opinion. And if we had to kind of explain the way that we practice it, a baby that western medicine and eastern medicine has, there's so much value in both ends of that spectrum. And I think oftentimes you find dieticians or even other health professionals at the polar opposite ends.

Dahlia Marin (7m 41s):

So we said we see both, both are great when they're warranted, so we wanna integrate both appropriately with one another and we live that way and we wanted to deliver that to others who wanna live that way

James Marin (7m 52s):

As well. And really it was like, you know, I am sure a lot of listeners and everyone can relate to like information overload. Like you're hearing it from social media and TikTok and YouTube and all these books and professors. And so you know, it was really like how do we curate this, right? How do we take everything we've been learning over the last seven plus years, almost eight years now as dietician and like distill it and curate it and really take the best of everything. And that's what we put into our practice was like the best of the east, the best of the west, holistic, functional, integrative, you know, environment. And put it all together into like, here's the big picture for your health and nutrition. And

Dahlia Marin (8m 27s):

That's why we called ourselves married to health. Not only are we married to each other, we do kind of marry these different concepts.

Katie Ferraro (8m 32s):

For those of you listening, if you're not watching the video version of this, they have these beautiful pictures of the human gut behind their heads. I love it. It's like I know your specialty is gut stuff and that's like what we're here to talk about specifically today. Maybe you could just share a little bit about the link between the gut and the brain. First of all, for all of us parents, like we sometimes forget, you know, I always think like the butterflies in your stomach is the perfect example. Like you're nervous and it's affecting you physiologically in your gut. How is the gut in the brain linked? And then maybe in a second we can kind of segue into how that affects your baby.

Dahlia Marin (9m 2s):

Love that question. I think it's so important to discuss that and I think a lot of times it doesn't get talked about. And now more and more we are starting to hear about it. We have something called the enteric nervous system in and around our gut. And so the gut and the brain connect directly between something called the vagus nerve. We know that there are so many nervous signals going from gut to brain and then some coming from brain to gut. We have seen in studies that we produce upwards of 70% of our serotonin in our gut. We also produce over 50% of our dopamine in our gut. These are happy chemicals. They come directly from our healthy gut. What we eat and what interacts in our gut microbiome directly affects our mood, our behavior, and our kids as well.

Katie Ferraro (9m 46s):

So when parents ask specifically about their baby's gut health, and sometimes I'll get questions about, and I have a very food forward approach and I personally work with like a primarily neurotypical population. So completely understanding that with diagnosed, you know, vitamin and mineral nutrient deficiencies, there's needs for supplementation. But when parents start asking questions about probiotics, I was curious, they say like, what supplements should my baby be on for probiotics and gut health in babies? Is there an indication for supplements or can we find food-based ways to help babies in this arena as well?

Dahlia Marin (10m 20s):

That's a really great question and we receive that question as well. I think it's very easy to ask what supplements should I be giving or what supplements should I take? And I like people to think even before that. What we do know is our microbiomes look 100% different now than they did even a hundred years ago. And this is oftentimes in regards to babies in the baby's gut due to very sterilized conditions, this can happen when mom might have taken antibiotics during pregnancy, whether she's group B strep positive or for other indications maybe mom needed to take antibiotics. So that wiped up some of her bacteria. Perhaps mom had a C-section and not a vaginal delivery. We know that that vaginal microbiome inoculates baby initially with some important microbes.

Dahlia Marin (11m 5s):

And now things are changing, thankfully for C-section deliveries where babies are getting swabbed with mom's vaginal bacteria, even if they are delivered C-section. But if it's that sterile condition, maybe mom wasn't able to breastfeed. So in that case, if baby is missing all of those touch points when perhaps natural microbiome could have been delivered to baby possibly. So if it is a baby, like I said, who's on that trajectory? Mom took antibiotics, C-section delivery, not breastfed, they might be missing a lot of a very important strain. If that strain is possibly at risk, then yes, perhaps one can benefit from either supplementing baby or supplementing mom with that specific strain.

Dahlia Marin (11m 46s):

But there have been other studies where other strains were utilized no benefit to baby more than one week after supplementation, even if mom continued to supplements baby for months. And then again, long-term effects studies had no benefit from using other strains of probiotic. Our gut is very complex. In an infant microbiome, there are dozens, hundreds, thousands of strains already forming. So usually in most probiotic supplements you're getting four strains, five strains, and a lot of them that might set off the natural rhythm and that natural balance. And so, so be cautious,

James Marin (12m 20s):

Right? And so the analogy here is, is when it comes to your gut microbiome, you are building structure and you're building population, which in turn equals function, right? And so a great analogy is like New York City wasn't built in a couple of weeks, right? Like you had to build all that infrastructure and we like all these businesses and then all these people moved in and now you have a thriving population. So it would be like when you're overloading the body with probiotic supplements, you're taking a small city in Ohio, let's say, and trying to make them New York City. And what If you took all the people in New York City and moved them to that small city in Ohio? Probably wouldn't work out long term, right? So that kinda, that's kind of that analogy which links back to that. It's one week it shows a difference because maybe those people were there for a week and soon they were like, I don't have a place to sleep or live, I don't have a job, I'm getting outta here.

James Marin (13m 6s):

Right? So then the name of the game is how do we build that structure? How do we build that gut microbiome? And really it comes down to breastfeeding.

KiwiCo (13m 16s):

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Katie Ferraro (15m 10s):

And let's talk about the food-based sources of probiotics too. 'cause I think when people hear probiotics, they automatically think supplements. And it is important to remind people that there's not even consensus in the healthcare and the research community about what dose constitutes an effective amount of probiotics as I understand it. Or what are the best strains? Like it's not like you just say probiotics and you take X amount like iron, you need X number of milligrams a day. It's, it doesn't work like that with probiotics. Is that correct? Correct.

Dahlia Marin (15m 37s):

That is very correct. And again, I think an analogy James likes to give is, you know, we all have fingerprints, but we're all unique. So our microbiomes are very, very much the same. So it is very hard to standardize that amount of probiotic, those strains of probiotic because we all have different predispositions to different things. And again, just trying to throw probiotics at something might not solve the issue. So as much as we wanna focus on prevention, we can also focus on diet, which is also another initiative with prevention. So mom's diet can be very rich in prebiotics as well. So different types of plant foods. And that's really where the prebiotics come from. They come exclusively from these fiber rich fruits, vegetables, nuts, beans, seeds, grains, legumes.

Dahlia Marin (16m 22s):

So if mom's diet is very rich in that, then her breast milk will also be very rich in that as well. We also know that there are foods that can, can change strains of probiotics. I think most of them are referred to as ferments. So we think that when we ferment certain types of foods that they produce live strains of bacteria. And it can vary from different things, but things that are fermented and probiotics can be kimchi sauerkraut. It can be things like Keifer or it can be yogurt, it could also be a dairy for yogurt as well, made of different nuts or seeds like almond cashew or peeling nut. These usually have added strains of probiotic in them and studies have shown that mom can pass those probiotic strains onto baby, and those are present in her breast milk.

Dahlia Marin (17m 7s):

If mom is consuming some of these probiotic or fermented foods that are supposed to have probiotics.

James Marin (17m 12s):

I kind of laugh at this topic because there's really even no consensus on what a probiotic is, like the term probiotic, right? And so I know

Katie Ferraro (17m 19s):

I laugh at the topic, which is why I asked you guys to be on the podcast. I'm like, maybe they understand it, but it's all seems like a little bit of like lotions and potions, these sort of stuff, like, right, right. Because even, I mean what, how much, what's a billion? Well, is it 10 billion or which strain or, and also like isn't yogurt just like in and of itself a natural source of bacteria and probiotic that's good for the gut? And If you give your baby whole milk full fat, unsweetened yogurt, like boom, there's a probiotic food. Why do you have to go buy a fancy supplements? It's kinda always been my approach, but I just wanted to get yours.

James Marin (17m 49s):

Yeah, no, no, seriously. I mean it's, it's crazy because we'll go to these expos sometimes for our profession. I don't know if you've been to Natural Products Expo. Oh yeah. And there's probiotic chips and probiotic soda and probiotic even probably there's a lotion, a probiotic lotion you can rub on your face, right? So there's probiotic everything, but really when you are, let's say getting cabbage and throwing it in vinegar with a little bit of salt and water and you're watching it ferment, where did that strain come from? We didn't buy it and add it to that jar of cabbage. The strains were already on the cabbage, right? The idea is that you're eating tons of these microbes and If you can eat what we find in what we find in studies, which is a majority of, of plant foods, so potatoes and like Dahlia said, beans and and fruits and vegetables, you are getting this variety of microbes and hopefully they're gonna have this synergistic effect that's hopefully gonna be positive.

James Marin (18m 41s):

So that's that symbiotic effect, right? Rather than, you know, a chip in a probiotic capsule saying, here's a probiotic chip or taking a bunch of who knows, you know, so, or taking a bunch and supplements

Katie Ferraro (18m 51s):

And it's like organic junk food is still junk food in people because you, it's the perception of health, which is, you know, it's 99% marketing, just like so many things in the baby food world. Yeah. Like these are all things for the most part we don't need. And that's why I was so excited. It's hard to find a gut health expert to come on and talk who's not gonna try to sell you a million supplements And like, and yes that would be, you know, the golden pills, what everyone wants. It's a little bit harder to work on introducing foods, but we have a whole audience of parents who are like, no, I wanna do this. I wanna introduce these foods to my baby. So without freaking out about your baby's gut health, but like for your, again, yeah, neurotypical child, mom, maybe fed colostrum but didn't exclusively breastfeed, has a decent ish diet. Like is your baby's gut health something Like If you had to rank and prioritize things to freak out and be worried about, like is that high up there or is this something that I think we maybe are, the idea is pushed upon us by the supplements industry that like, oh, we need to be so concerned about it when maybe if we just worked on feeding our babies real foods, their gut microbiome would develop the way it's supposed to.

Katie Ferraro (19m 47s):

Yeah. Not to put any words in your mouth, that's just my opinion. I'm like, am I on track here or like

Dahlia Marin (19m 51s):

You are. Absolutely. Yeah. Especially when it comes to probiotics for the gut. Supplements should be conservative. More is definitely not always better. So we know that when you're taking, people are usually attracted to them. My patients are always like, oh yeah, I'm taking 10 billion colony forming units of this, these two strains. You have thousands of strains in your gut. So you might actually be offsetting things and you can do the same for your kids. So if they're unnecessarily being given probiotic supplements, you could very well be suppressing the development of some other strains that they need to be making because you're overwhelming their microbiome with these probiotics. Food first is always gonna be a, an approach. And like you said that mom, that example that you gave, maybe she fed some colostrum, breastfed for a little bit.

Dahlia Marin (20m 35s):

Diet is decent, they're doing great, they have no concerns of giving probiotics. And we know last year the American Gastroenterological Association came out with their guidelines and they even showed for the general population, adults and children, really most people should not be taking probiotics. Very, very few cases. A typical mom with a typical diet and a little bit of breast milk. You should be good.

Katie Ferraro (20m 60s):

What about prolonged antibiotic use in children? Like if your child has had multiple ear infections? I know sometimes parents are worried, oh my gosh. Because you know, antibiotics not only kill the bad stuff, but they kill some of the good guys too. If you have had a medically fragile child or a child who has been on antibiotics for whatever reason, for prolonged period, would that be a reason to possibly consider needing additional probiotics? Yes or no? You

James Marin (21m 21s):

Can tell, lemme just add a disclaimer. This is not medical advice.

Katie Ferraro (21m 24s):

She's Like shaking her head now and yeah

James Marin (21m 24s):

We're Registered dietitian. But go ahead. I know you.

Dahlia Marin (21m 27s):

Yeah, so that's a a really, really good question. And before we get there, I like to always give the context of they've done analyses and have shown that over 50% of antibiotics given are given unnecessarily. So oftentimes,

Katie Ferraro (21m 41s):

Of course most parents know that I think,

Dahlia Marin (21m 42s):

Yeah, we jump on things that maybe aren't even bacterial. So one, make sure that it is warranted. And two, they actually, a couple of years ago, I think it was a 20 17 20 18 study that took three groups of people and with all three groups of people, they administered antibiotics. So they wiped out their microbiome in one of the groups of people. They had first taken a fecal microbiotic transplant from the own person. So they had a sample of their stool for the second group, they gave them probiotics after taking antibiotics. And for the third group, they did nothing. What they found that after three months of this study was, of course the group that recovered their original microbiome most quickly was the one that got their own FMT.

Dahlia Marin (22m 25s):

They literally got a microbiome given back to them. The group that recovered second was not the probiotic group, it was the group that did nothing. They even found that at the end of this three month study, the probiotic group had not recovered their original microbiome. Eat that much healthier after you've taken antibiotics, try to recoup your own natural microbiome with prebiotic foods and you can eat some of these fermented foods that hopefully have probiotic strains in them.

James Marin (22m 52s):

And I always like to, I mean, our approach is why, why were those, you know, chronic ear infections happening, why, what else was happening? Usually when we probe and ask these questions, it's really, you know, we're, we're so go, go, go. And you know, as, as a parent, and we know as parents that like, oh my gosh, they have to go to tumbling, then they have karate and they have school and this project and we have work. And it's go, go, go. And you really don't stop to think of, oh wow, yeah, that did happen. Where before they got an ear infection, you know, I, they were actually on antibiotics not that long ago for something else. Or you know, we just follow the rabbit hole down and we try to get to that root and we try to go, oh look, let's focus and let's double down on lifestyle in this area. Let's really like Dalio saying add back these foods.

James Marin (23m 33s):

Or maybe there's some emotional trauma or there's stress or there's anxiety, you need more sleep or there's other sleep, you need more sleep, you're not hydrating enough. There's, it's usually a multifactorial, you know, solution to this multifactorial problem.

Katie Ferraro (23m 46s):

It's not just take and supplements. Yeah,

James Marin (23m 48s):

Absolutely. Or take and supplements or take an antibiotic and there you go. You're gonna be all set. It's usually not that.

Katie Ferraro (23m 54s):

Hey, we're gonna take a quick break, but I'll be right back. I love to ask guests just a little bit about the way they introduce solids to their babies. So I was curious for your guys' daughter, just for our audience, they'd love to know where you're coming from. I know you guys are a primarily plant-based family. Did you raise your daughter that way? Did you guys do baby led weaning? Does she eat the same as you? Like what's your family approach for feeding?

James Marin (24m 25s):

Yeah, so she is, so our daughter has been a hundred percent plant-based her whole life. And this was, you know, it's, it's a cool experiment we did and it, and it's worked out. And so Dahlia and I have been a hundred percent plant-based for You're

Katie Ferraro (24m 36s):

Lucky because it sounds kind of like I'm experiment to go. My kids realize it. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. No, but

James Marin (24m 41s):

It, but it truly is. I mean it's, it's really cool. Like science is when you're looking at science, even peer reviewed studies, like you're going off educated guesses, right? Like this is out of all the factors and knowledge we have, we're doing experiments and saying, okay, this looks like the best path. Who knows? It might not be, but we're going down that and it's been working out really well. Deli and I are going on 10 years, a hundred percent plant-based and it's been really great.

Katie Ferraro (25m 3s):

Does that mean vegan? I'm sorry, I don't know the terminology, but they're both smiling.

James Marin (25m 7s):

No, that's fine. I mean, and that's why we have nothing against a majority of our patients eat animals. And we, you know, we say as long as you're a majority plant-based, we feel like that's more of us need more plants essentially. We are not really vegan. Vegan is more of a lifestyle and a belief system of like, okay, I like do no harm to animals. Not that we go out and harm animals, but you know, we're, we're in it more for health, not for like ethical reasons. We're not ethical vegans we're more of just health vegans. So

Dahlia Marin (25m 33s):

Health, health of the environment. Yeah. And of course we care about animals, but So

Katie Ferraro (25m 37s):

You guys did not do fish shellfish, egg dairy, like you just, you just don't do those foods. You, you made the conscientious decision to not do those foods for your family.

Dahlia Marin (25m 45s):

Yes. So we modified baby led weaning in the sense that it worked for our family and our lifestyle and we introduced the other allergens that our plant-based, like peanuts, tree nuts, coconuts, we have introduced her to those plant-based allergens and it has come up. So Layla recently has taken an interest in eggs. She in preschool would see that for snack time, sometimes the kids would eat hard-boiled eggs. And she was one day came home and she said, I want to try this. And again, we are not ethical vegans per se. And so I kind of talked it out with James and, and we openly have family discussions and I was like, okay, interesting. Why do you wanna try eggs, Layla? Well, I, I don't know, they just look interesting.

Dahlia Marin (26m 26s):

My kids in my class were eating it. I, I'm kind of curious about it. So we were like, okay, well let's talk about why we don't eat eggs. 'cause she did ask, she said, if I try them, will you try them with me? And I said, you can try them. I respect you and I want you to be able to try things If you want to try them. And I wanna make sure that they're, you know, responsibly sourced. James's uncle has backyard chicken. So we said okay, maybe when we see Uncle Paul, we can try one of his eggs. But she asked if I would try an egg with her and I said, I personally would not want to eat the egg because of X, Y, and Z. My personal reasons for not wanting to eat eggs, but you can try them. And so I said, think about it, you know, we're gonna see Uncle Paul. And so she came back and she was like, no, I don't think I wanna try it but I might.

Dahlia Marin (27m 9s):

And I said, okay, I kind of left it at that. So we'll see how that goes and introducing that to her because that will be one of her first exposures to that. I'm sure in her six years of life she's been exposed somewhere a baked good she's had well with my mom or you know, I'm sure these things have come into her diet one way or another. Yeah. But that will be, you know, if she so chooses, which we don't know if she will her first exposure to that food. And

Katie Ferraro (27m 34s):

Do your parents support a plant-based lifestyle? 'cause you've both shared openly that you were raised in families that didn't have the same emphasis on health and nutrition that you two have now not only made part of your marriage but part of your business and now your daughter's life. How do you deal with the interaction with family members who might not understand or be pressuring you to, you know, make Layla try an egg from your uncle's backyard? Yeah,

James Marin (27m 57s):

I'll say my family has a harder time with it definitely than Dahlia's family. And I think it has something to do with culture. I think I'll let her speak to that. But my family has had a really hard time with it and yeah, we've had to set boundaries and really it's just kinda like, this is our boundary, please respect us. And, and yeah, just been really adamant about that. But I think when people kind of see where we're coming from, they see what we do, we have the talking points to back it up. Like if my family tries to challenge me, I'm like, here's A, B, C to give G, you know, and they're like, okay, nevermind. Like I'll back off. But yeah.

Dahlia Marin (28m 29s):

And with my family, really it's not only the fact that we are plant-based, it's also just the fact that we've taught Layla intuitive eating. We do practice, you know, the division of responsibility with her. We do teach her that when she's satisfied, she's in charge of telling us that. And that was very new for my family. I was a member of the Clean Plate Club. So initially with my family, that was probably the harder thing for them of saying, Layla, finish your plate and you know, or take,

James Marin (28m 56s):

Take one more bite. Yeah. And it's like why she said she's satisfied, right? So yeah,

Dahlia Marin (29m 0s):

So both of them kind of happened I think simultaneously, which kind of just let my family know, look, we know what we're doing and we feel very passionately about that and we would really appreciate If you respected us and this is what we want for our daughter. And, but with both, they really have opened up. I remember when I was pregnant, my mom laughed and she was like, ah, you think with her Egyptian accent, you think she's gonna be vegan? And I said, yes, you know, right now that's how I would like to raise my daughter. And so over time they've really seen that we are passionate about this. And now my mom is even the one telling my dad, I heard very recently, my dad was telling Layla to finish her plate and my mom said, no, no, They don't do this. My mom told him like, lay, they don't do that.

Dahlia Marin (29m 41s):

Like, so I think it in every aspect, it has been a learning experience for us and for them. And now Layla is her own little advocate. She tells me, my mom laughs and tells me If, you know, in the past when they took her to restaurants, Layla will ask, even starting at three years old, she'll ask the server, does this have daily, is this vegan? So she kind of will ask on her own If, you know, it does meet the way that our family chooses to eat.

Katie Ferraro (30m 6s):

Layla's lucky because you guys are both on the same page about that. Like for many families it even starts with the parents are not on the same page where yes, one parent or part of pushing the baby does, she needs to be eating more because they're not getting enough. The other one's like, no, it's, it's actually, I love the way your mom said it. It's not what they do anymore. Like literally that's not a thing anymore. So, and it's okay to have those discussions, but it does help. Yeah. When both parents are united on the same front. So I am like totally in awe of you guys. I think the work you do is so important. I think it's so important that you're helping to promote the face of nutrition and dietetics with cultural diversity, with different foods, with different areas of nutrition, environmental nutrition for James, and doing all of the integrative work that you're doing, Dahlia, it's really, really inspiring.

Katie Ferraro (30m 49s):

So thank you for the work you guys do. And I was curious If you could just share with our audience where can they go to learn more about both of you and your practice and all of your resources.

James Marin (30m 57s):

Yeah, our website married to health.com. You can find us on Instagram at Married to Health and Everywhere. Facebook, no, YouTube, all married to Health. Even TikTok, even Clubhouse. Clubhouse is a new one. We're interested on that. Thanks

Katie Ferraro (31m 11s):

Guys. Oh my gosh, that was awesome. You guys are amazing.

James Marin (31m 14s):

Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

Katie Ferraro (31m 16s):

Well, I hope you guys enjoyed that interview with James and Dahlia from Married to Health. Aren't they cool? Like I think they're so amazing. I love the message that they're putting out there. I think gut health is very important. I think there's a lot of grifters though in the gut health space, And I don't think your baby needs a microbiome test when they don't even know how to eat real food yet. But that's just my opinion. If your baby is in the market to be learning how to eat real food though, I've got a done for you solution that shows you exactly what foods to feed your baby on, what day, how to prep them all safely. Come check on My program Baby-led Weaning with Katie Ferraro. I've got a discount code for you, the podcast listener. You can check it out in the description wherever you're listening to or watching this podcast.

Katie Ferraro (31m 59s):

If you wanna check out the show notes, go to blwpodcast.com/108. All of James and Dahlia's resources are linked up there.

Airwave Media (32m 7s):

And a special thank you to our partners at Airwave Media. If you like podcasts that feature food and science and using your brain, check out some of the podcasts from Airwave Media. We're online@blwpodcast.com. Thanks again for listening. I'll see you guys next time. Bye now.