From Niche to Norm: The Evolution of Baby-Led Weaning with Gill Rapley, PhD
- How baby-led weaning went from being a fringe parenting fad to a mainstream feeding philosophy
- Why healthcare professionals and researchers are increasingly aligned with baby-led weaning
- What Gill Rapley thinks about influencers promoting the feeding philosophy she started
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Episode Description
Baby-Led Weaning is not a made up thing on the internet…it’s a revolutionary approach that has transformed how we think about feeding babies. Once a fringe idea, baby-led weaning has entered the mainstream, backed by research and embraced by parents and professionals worldwide. In this special final episode, Gill Rapley, the founding philosopher of the baby-led weaning movement and co-author of the original baby-led weaning book reflects on its incredible evolution, its impact on families and child development, and why trusting your baby’s instincts is more important than ever. Join us as we celebrate this remarkable journey and look ahead to the future of infant feeding.
About the Guest
- Gill Rapley is the founding philosopher of the baby-led weaning movement and co-author of the original baby-led weaning book
- She is a former UK Health Visitor who observed that babies do not dislike food, they dislike the feeding being done to them
- Gill Rapley champions the trusting of your baby’s inborn ability and desire to self-feed
Other Episode Related to this Topic
- Episode 260 - Adapted Baby-Led Weaning for Children with Developmental Delays with Gill Rapley, PhD and Jill Rabin, MS, CCC-SLP/L, IBCLC
Links from this Episode
- Baby-Led Weaning with Katie Ferraro program with the 100 First Foods™ Daily Meal Plan, join here: https://babyledweaning.co/program
- Baby-Led Weaning for Beginners free online workshop with 100 First Foods™ list to all attendees, register here: https://babyledweaning.co/baby-led-weaning-for-beginners
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Katie Ferraro (1m 5s):
Are you trying to squeeze the starting solid food stuff into your already busy schedule? Well, I have an all-in-one done for you solution that's going to take the guesswork out of feeding your baby. My online program is called Baby-Led Weaning with Katie Ferraro contains all of my Baby-Led Weaning training videos, the original 100 First Foods content library, plus a hundred day meal plan with recipes like the exact sequence of which foods to feed in which order. So if you wanna stop trying to piece all this feeding stuff together on your own, I would be honored if you would join me inside of the program. You can get signed up at baby-led weaning.co/program.
Gill Rapley (1m 36s):
I've seen over the last 20 years that people who dismissed it in the beginning have come on board. It speaks for itself. There's no point in in me getting into a fight with people who don't quite get it yet. They just need to look around, engage with some parents who are doing it. There is no evidence for spoonfeeding and puree use. Nobody has ever researched that and seen whether it's a good idea.
Katie Ferraro (1m 57s):
Hey there, I'm Katie Ferraro, registered dietitian, college nutrition professor and mom of seven specializing in Baby-Led Weaning here on the Baby -Led Weaning with Katie Ferraro podcast. I help you strip out all of the noise and nonsense about feeding, giving you the confidence and knowledge you need to give your baby a safe start to Solid Foods using Baby-Led Weaning. So this is it, episode 500. It's technically the last episode of the Baby-Led Weaning podcast. I think 500 episodes is a nice place to wrap things up, and there's nobody more fitting to cover today's topic From Niche to Norm, The Evolution of Baby-Led Weaning than Gill Rapley, the founding philosopher of this movement, the co-author of the original Baby-Led Weaning book.
Katie Ferraro (2m 50s):
Gill Rapley has been a very gracious guest on this podcast numerous times in the past. I think we've done eight interviews together over the years here. She was actually on the podcast for the first time as a guest in episode 100. It was all about the history of Baby-Led Weaning, and I remember being so nervous to approach her and ask her to come on, and then she ended up being so super kind, very generous with her time. She's always willing to help dispel myths about Baby-Led Weaning or explain what is or isn't consistent with this, this feeding philosophy. And as Gill Rapley will share in this interview, she talks about How Baby-Led Weaning is not just a feeding method. Like are you doing purees or are you doing Baby-Led Weaning?
Katie Ferraro (3m 32s):
But rather it's an approach and a philosophy and it's about trusting your baby and their ability to do important stuff like learn how to feed themselves. But it also does not mean, oh, your baby just eats the same foods that you do as an adult. Because learning how to eat is much more nuanced than that. In this interview, Gill's going to talk about How Baby-Led Weaning has evolved over the last two decades. She'll talk about how she approached and handled skeptics back in the day when Baby-Led Weaning was just starting out as a movement and a philosophy. And then how the medical establishment and the research community has really changed their tune about Baby-Led Weaning after a critical mass of what she calls parent power took hold.
Katie Ferraro (4m 12s):
We're gonna talk a little bit about social media and influencers and how the landscape of helping families start Solid Foods safely has evolved. I am so grateful to Gill Rapley for not only her work in this field for establishing it as a feeding philosophy, but also for her mentorship and her friendship over the years. And certainly her help and her contributions here on this podcast. I know one of the highlights for me this year was getting to meet Gill in person for the first time in San Diego, which is my hometown. We went to Target together. You guys like amazing. I was in the baby food aisle at Target with Gill Rapley. It was just like total goal. So I wanted to end the podcast with an interview with Gill to hear her talk about How Baby-Led Weaning has evolved From Niche to Norm.
Katie Ferraro (4m 57s):
So with no further ado, here is Gill Rapley to talk about The Evolution of Baby-Led Weaning on episode 500 of the Baby-Led Weaning podcast. Well, Gill, as the creator of Baby-Led Weaning, how does it feel to see an idea that you introduced grow from a really niche concept to a mainstream approach that's now embraced by parents and professionals around the world?
Gill Rapley (5m 24s):
Oh, Casey, it's so exciting. I can't tell you. It's really lovely when you discover that others share your kind of vision, they see what you see that's really affirming on a kind of personal level. So that's great. But I'm kind of excited for babies and parents because the fact that other people are taking this up and talking about it, people like yourselves, I can't believe it's your 500th episode, that's amazing. But that means that so many more parents get to hear about it and, and they and their babies are benefiting. And I love the fact that different cultures, people of different backgrounds, different professionals, different, just different everything. And at the bottom of it all is a baby who just knows what to do.
Gill Rapley (6m 6s):
And all babies, all cultures, all religions, all languages. The babies just get it. And so when the parents do too, it, it's just amazing. We have
Katie Ferraro (6m 15s):
A tendency to overcomplicate things. So I love the simplicity of this approach. And they say, you know, at the bottom of it all is a baby who just knows what to do. Gill, can you take us back to the origins of Baby-Led Weaning? What inspired you to challenge the traditional methods of how babies are introduced to Solid Foods, at least in western food cultures?
Gill Rapley (6m 37s):
Well, it was really my work as a health visitor, which is a little like a public health nurse. I visited families with, with children under five in the uk Every family has a health visitor kind of assigned to them. And I just saw so much misery between moms and dads and babies over the business of introducing Solid Foods that it seemed to be so difficult. Why did it have to be so difficult? That, and my background in breastfeeding support lactation counseling meant that I had a, a sort of, and esteem for babies and, and a recognition of just what they're capable of.
Gill Rapley (7m 18s):
And putting those two things together kind of took me in, in, in the way forward. I think it was all about what the experience was for the babies. So often babies were written off as not liking certain foods just because they pushed them away. And the more I watched babies, the more I thought, I don't think this is the food. I think this is something else. This is the experience for them, what it means for them and what, what's being done to them. That's what they're not liking. That's what they're refusing. And so that's really the basis for the whole approach of Baby-Led Weaning. And it's, and it's why it's about more than just whether you spoonfeed or whether you offer purees. It's the whole experience for the baby.
Gill Rapley (7m 58s):
That's, that's what matters. I also remember vividly one mom saying to me, do you know when I'm eating an apple, he wants to grab it, but when I offer him apple puree, he's not interested. He, he pushes the spoon away. And that's what really gave me this clue that it's not the food, it's something else. And so I just started to observe babies and see what they told me.
Katie Ferraro (8m 20s):
What were some of the biggest challenges that you faced as far as gaining acceptance for Baby-Led Weaning? And then how would you say that attitudes have changed since you first introduced this concept and this philosophy?
Gill Rapley (8m 33s):
I think the biggest challenges were from health professionals and from researchers because be led winning challenges, the status quo, it challenges the beliefs on which a lot of practice is based. It challenges researchers because it, it, it questions the fundamental understanding we have about how feeding and eating skills develop. For example, now some professionals and some researchers got it and they ran with it and that was absolutely fabulous. I've never really had found a problem from parents. They just get it straight away. Either they are starting with a blank sheet 'cause it's their first baby and they dunno any different. And, and they're keen to see things from their baby's point of view, which is perhaps a thing more and more with recent generations that we've understood, you know, that the baby's experience matters.
Gill Rapley (9m 22s):
They're not just kind of inanimate beings to have things done to them. But the more experienced parents had often had huge problems with spoonfeeding. And so this gave them another way to, to another thing to try. And so parents have always just grabbed it and run with it. And then of course when they try it, it works. And so they don't look back. But it, it is, has been the professionals who've kind of had, they come with baggage if you like, and and they need to, to, it's hard to get them to some of them, some of them it's hard to get 'em to embrace a new idea and to really look at it objectively and, and not in light of what they think they already know.
Katie Ferraro (10m 2s):
And I'll tell you, it's the younger generation of healthcare professionals who are really on board with Baby-Led Weaning because they're doing it with their own children. So they're not only speaking with their professional background, they're speaking from their own personal lived experiences. And I can't tell you how many pediatricians have said, Katie, this is, this is so much easier. It makes so much more sense than force feeding a baby by spoon. It's completely revolutionized how I talk to my own patients about starting solid foods. So I would say the next generation of healthcare professionals is certainly getting the message. They still come with baggage. We know there's still a lot of misinformation, especially in the medical establishment here in the United States about starting solid foods. So there's still a lot of work to be done.
Katie Ferraro (10m 43s):
But I, I do love hearing from the healthcare professionals actually doing this with their own babies.
Gill Rapley (10m 49s):
It's parents who forced the pace. They've, they've pushed professionals to look at Baby-Led Weaning and to, to embrace it because they've said, well, we are doing this and it works. And so, you know, don't tell me that, that I can't do this. So that, that's been huge parent power that's done it. And, and the internet and social media have obviously contributed that to that as well. So it's been great.
Katie Ferraro (11m 11s):
Hey, we're gonna take a quick break, but I'll be right back.
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Katie Ferraro (12m 59s):
Now let's talk a little bit about the researchers. 'cause you mentioned that at the beginning they were a little bit of a pain point, but now I'm curious to know what you think about the role of research, what it role has it played in supporting and validating the benefits of Baby-Led Weaning? You mentioned yes, it, you did challenge the status quo at the beginning, but as current research exists, are there any studies that you are particularly proud of or excited about with regards to establishing Baby-Led Weaning as a real incredible alternative to conventional adult-led spoonfeeding?
Gill Rapley (13m 31s):
I'm excited first by the amount of research there is, there's been some really good work looking at, at the benefits of it, linking it with appetite control with dietary variety. Babies who've been introduced to soli this way end up eating more fruit and veg, less ultra processed food and just have it generally it seems a better quality diet. They're also less likely to be picky eaters. And we are seeing evidence that it does help with oral motor skills and chewing the experience of chewing right from six months is, is helping babies' mouths develop. It's helping with language, whether that's the oral development or the fact of sharing family meals isn't clear, but, but it, either way it's working.
Gill Rapley (14m 13s):
And we've got some suggestion that motor development generally and developmental milestones are being reached earlier when babies have been introduced to Solid Foods this way. And the other really exciting research is that which shows nothing, no difference between Baby-Led Weaning and the conventional approach in terms of risk of choking or lacking nutrients or faltering growth. You know, we can actually be confident that, I think in terms of, one of the things that I got the most excitement from actually goes back to 2017 and that was when I just have to read this, the jama, the Journal of the American Medical Association, their pediatrics journal carried a, a piece by Taylor Etal from New Zealand about Baby- Led Weaning.
Gill Rapley (15m 2s):
And the editors of the journal wrote in their editorial that parents may be allowed a free choice in the manner of infant weeding, weaning, or Baby- Led Weaning might even be encouraged as an approach to address concerns regarding infant food, neo phobia, food refusal, and disruptive mealtime behaviors. And while on one level I, I find it funny and a bit quaint that we talk about, for example, disruptive mealtime behaviors when this is just kids saying, I don't like this, but I love the fact that they say, Hey, it's okay, it's safe, it's effective. We can actually let parents do this in our, in our boundary.
Katie Ferraro (15m 38s):
I love the idea that a lot of researchers get together and say, oh, parents could have free choice at how their baby starts Solid Foods. It's like, yeah, you think they're not reading JAMA to learn how to do it, but, but it is important. And, and it is like that's 2017 article. You know, these, some of these studies have been around for a little bit of time. Anything like recently coming out that you're like, oh, that's a cool way of studying Baby-Led Weaning. 'cause I know you're always reading the Google alerts and getting all the Google Scholar alerts, you're up on everything that's happening in Baby-Led Weaning. What's something in, as we go into 2025 that you think is like really cool that researchers are looking at
Gill Rapley (16m 10s):
It sound a little bit mundane, but I think one of the things that, that I know some are grappling with is finally getting us a definition of what Baby-Led Weaning is. Because there's no point in doing loads and loads of research if we are not clear what actually we're looking at. You know, it's the same as as defining exclusive breastfeeding. You know, if we don't actually know what we're talking about, then the results are not easy to interpret. So I know there is some work being done on that and it may not be as glamorous or exciting as some of the other stuff, but it's gonna be the basis for some really meaningful research going forward.
Katie Ferraro (16m 43s):
So we're talking about defining the term Baby-Led Weaning, that that term is now widely recognized, even referenced in pop culture. I mean, heck, there was a New Yorker cartoon about Baby-Led Weaning recently. How do you feel about its transition into the mainstream and what that means for parents and caregivers? Like this is not some made up thing on the internet. That's
Gill Rapley (17m 3s):
Right. It means it can be talked about because it has a name. Because actually parents have been doing this forever. Parents of especially parents with many children have found it for themselves and they just didn't give it, have a name for it. And they just, it seemed to them just common sense. So they didn't sing about it from the rooftops, but that meant it wasn't accessible to some parents who were struggling and, and, and hadn't found another way. But also to first time parents, there wasn't any alternative. You did spoonfeeding until you found that didn't work and then you looked around maybe for something else. So I love the fact that it's kind of outta the closet now and we can really talk about it. And that with the research that's, that's appearing all of that means that people need, parents need to be afraid to try it, that professionals can support it confidently.
Gill Rapley (17m 49s):
And that in turn gives the impetus for more research because the more it's happening that the more we want to know about it. The downside, of course, is that it gets distorted and there are a lot of influence influencers out there who talk about maybe led weaning, but actually what they're describing is not quite correct and or it, it's perhaps just seen as an issue of, of not spoonfeeding your baby instead of it being a whole holistic approach whereby you trust your child. So I, I only recently I witnessed a grandmother didn't have to be the, it just happened to be the grandmother of this baby thinking she was doing the right thing and saying, oh, I know you can give babies what whatever we eat nowadays, but actually she was putting the food into the baby's mouth in chunks, which is not safe.
Gill Rapley (18m 36s):
So we have to try and keep on top of the, the misinformation that's out there because that's the downside of, of the internet and social media and the spread of the idea.
Katie Ferraro (18m 47s):
And I wanted to ask, in your experience, you know, how does Baby-Led Weaning help a baby's development beyond just the feeding skills? What other areas of growth does it support? And if you don't mind, can you also share a little bit about how many different disciplines and professions are now involved with this field of Baby-Led Weaning?
Gill Rapley (19m 4s):
Not just in my experience, we now of course have research to back some of this up, but motor development has enhanced my collaboration with Jill Rabin on a book around in adapting Baby-Led Weaning for babies with feeding challenges. I learned so much from her and I understood that just simply reaching forward, leaning out, reaching forward to grab food is helping babies core motor development. So that's brilliant for neurodiverse babies. We know it's, it's helping with language and social skills and just family enjoyment of meal times, but also because it helps with eye hand coordination and fine movements.
Gill Rapley (19m 44s):
Babies will getting to grip with tools, not just tools for eating, but outside of that, their play, they can manage perhaps more intricate movements and so on because they're, they're practicing these skills at every single mealtime. And it, what it's also, I've, I've had parents tell me that they've, because they've had to discover how to trust their baby in terms of eating, if they want to do Baby-Led Weaning it, that has spread to other areas too. And so I remember a dad saying to me, you know, I I actually trust my my toddler to climb the climbing frame, you know, if I'm there to, you know, just in case, but I'm not constantly saying, be careful, you know, hold on tight or, or just kind of not letting him do it.
Gill Rapley (20m 29s):
I trust him because he knows his limitations. And that's really exciting. I think I hadn't anticipated that it would extend beyond the family meal table. The second part of your, your last question, which is about how many different disciplines and healthcare professionals this kind of touches. So the obvious ones would be like the, the pediatricians, the public health nurses, midwives, maybe if they're giving information about introducing Solid Foods, but dietitians like yourself, speech and language therapists, occupational therapists, just about anybody who has any and nursery care workers, you know, anyone who has anything to do with children under a year old, this touches them.
Gill Rapley (21m 11s):
This, this influences them and, and, and matters in terms of the advice and the information that they give to parents. And yes, I, I think the attitudes that you describe come from a challenge to people's long held beliefs and what the textbooks tell us about how eating skills develop. For example, textbooks often talk about babies being able to take food off a spoon with their lips. That this lip closure is a very fundamental eating skill, but not if you don't use spoons, it isn't. And the, the idea that babies might not develop an appropriate skill because they don't have the right tool introduced at the right time is, is a nonsense.
Gill Rapley (21m 54s):
Babies were, they're kind of programmed to, to develop and grow in whatever environment they're born into. And it's much more likely to me that that naturally reaching out and grabbing food and taking it to their mouths would be the way to develop firstly chewing skills. And that the skill of taking food off a spoon would come later when you use a spoon yourself. So it, that whole body of knowledge that we have that underpins so many different professionals understanding of how chewing skills develop is being poked at by Baby-Led Weaning. And it would be lovely. That would be something I particularly want for the future, is to look again at the way oral skills develop and the order we think they're develop in because we've distorted that order by the introduction of spoons,
Katie Ferraro (22m 42s):
You're helping avoid another generation of helicopter parents. So congratulations. Now in addition to the parenting, what about the healthcare professionals? I'm, I'm curious what message you would have for healthcare professionals who are still skeptical about Baby-Led Weaning. And I do, I wanna talk in particular about, you know, the chair of the American academy, a pediatric nutrition committee who has dismissed Baby-Led Weaning as a quote, social media driven invention despite, and this is my language, the real incredible body of research that supports this as a safe and effective alternative to conventional adult-led spoonfeeding. Like there's clearly a lot of work to do now, but how can healthcare professionals better support families who are interested in this approach rather than just dismissing them
Gill Rapley (23m 24s):
In terms of the people dismissing Baby-Led Weaning? I, I don't, I have to say I don't get very exercised around that because I've seen over the last 20 years that people who dismissed it in the beginning have come on board. It speaks for itself. There's no point in, in me getting into a fight with people who don't quite get it yet. They just need to look around, engage with some parents who are doing it, and they will see for themselves that it works. And already so many people have done that, that I'm sure the chair of of the a a p will do the same in the long run because it's, first of all, it's not new. As I've said, parents like of, of bigger families have done it for ages anyway, many grandmothers talk about how this was, this was how I did it.
Gill Rapley (24m 9s):
But it works. It's accepted in, as you say, the, the kind of popular culture. It's people use the term and they, whether or not they actually know what they're talking about, the fact is it's out there, it's not gonna disappear. So we just have to sit back and wait patiently. Well, people get on board with it. The other thing which I, I think is, is I try and remember to point out whenever I can, is that there is no evidence for spoonfeeding and puree use that nobody has ever researched that and seen whether it's a good idea, certainly for babies of six months old. It's just custom practice. It's be, it's been accepted because it was the only way, it still is the only way to get Solid Foods into babies who are too young to pick them up for themselves.
Gill Rapley (24m 52s):
So it dates back to when we really thought babies did need other foods that's sort of three, four months old, but it has no place in at six months and there is no evidence base on which to use it. So I think, you know, folk need to take a look at that and recognize that when they, there's challenging Baby-Led Weaning, which has a limited research at the moment back it, in fact, it has a lot more sound knowledge underpinning it than spoonfeeding does. We have fossil evidence that babies were chewing at six months, you know, thousands of years ago. We, we know that this works and we know plenty of people that have done it, but spoonfeeding is is the new thing, which should be being challenged and proved.
Katie Ferraro (25m 38s):
Hey, we're gonna take a quick break, but I'll be right back.
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Katie Ferraro (26m 14s):
I I oftentimes tell parents, you know, this is nothing new. Just like you said, you know, what do you think the cave mama fed cave baby back in the day before? There was an entire aisle of pouches at Target for the babies to suck out of. And I would say that one of the highlights for me of this year was certainly getting to meet you in person and we actually got to go to Target together and just cruise through the baby food aisle and, and compare and contrast what's different in the UK versus here. But, but none of it is food. It, it, it hardly resembles food anymore. The babies aren't being allowed to interact with the food and to smell it and to touch it and to taste it. We've so industrialized this process and I know our other colleagues are working in this space as well. But I do like the message of you guys, this is nothing new.
Katie Ferraro (26m 57s):
Like my own mom thinks who you met too on this trip. She thinks it's all kind of silly. Well, don't parents just know to feed their babies real food? And, and like you said, a lot of first time parents, they don't know that. And, and the only reason that they discovered that a baby should eat real food should not be because they struggled through spoonfeeding with their oldest. So I do appreciate that it's becoming more mainstream and I do think the baby food industry has definitely had a lot to do with how we think our baby should be fed. So a lot of this is kind of untraining, but I'm curious to know what you think has been the most rewarding part of seeing Baby-Led Weaning grow over the years. And then if you can, you know, what is your vision for it in the future?
Gill Rapley (27m 36s):
I think the most rewarding part has been seeing parents and babies enjoy mealtimes. As I say, my starting point was the misery that I witnessed and the struggle that parents were having and, and the misery for the babies. And to see that eliminated or reversed is, is just amazing. It's personally very gratifying to be credited with starting this kind of movement. Although, as we've discussed it, it's certainly wasn't something I invented. Certainly not a social media invention. It's something that's been around forever. But I love that it's being recognized and that babies are being recognized for their abilities and their instincts. And kind of my vision for the future is, I guess it's a bit difficult to to know how I feel about that because on the one hand, I, I want it to be just talked about all the time and, and become the norm.
Gill Rapley (28m 25s):
But at the same time, it shouldn't need a name. If it's just the way babies get fed. We shouldn't have to have a special name for that. We should talk about spoonfeeding as a niche and slightly odd thing and Baby-Led Weaning as just the way babies are introduced to Solid Foods.
Katie Ferraro (28m 42s):
I agree with you and I like this idea of like, I hope that in my professional lifetime that spoonfeeding will be the exception and not the norm. And the analogy I like to use as I was trying to explain to my children that there used to be a non-smoking section on an airplane, so you would get on an airplane and, and that's so weird. That just seems so anathema to where we are in the public health environment. But I hope we'll look back and, and when you see pictures of babies being fed by spoons, which unfortunately are still in the nutrition textbooks that all of the future dietitians learn from. Although as I told you, Gill, there's a, a finally a small, small, small little sidebar about Baby-Led Weaning, which I've been fighting for years to get into our US publications. At least the mention of it opening the door, it is important, it's a first step.
Katie Ferraro (29m 25s):
But I do hope we look back on the era of like, like remember when we used to ha have kids drive around in cars without seat belts? Remember when parents used to force feed babies food by spoon? That's something we don't do anymore.
Gill Rapley (29m 38s):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I completely agree that that would be my, my vision too.
Katie Ferraro (29m 42s):
Well for parents who are new, new to this journey or they're feeling unsure about their decision to do Baby-Led Weaning from Gill Rapley, what is one piece of advice that you would want them to take away from this interview about Baby-Led Weaning?
Gill Rapley (29m 55s):
It's that your baby can do it. Your baby knows what he or she is doing. They can, they can do this. And if they're not doing it yet, it's simply because they're not yet ready and they're saying, no thanks, I'm fine for the moment, I'll come to this later. So it's about us learning to respect babies and trust them and taking a backward step and just pausing and letting them set the pace. It's an approach that we now know can work for all babies. It may need to be adapted slightly for babies who are facing particular eating challenges, but the the basic idea of trusting a baby and giving them time and space and support, it can be applied to all babies.
Gill Rapley (30m 38s):
The other thing I think I want parents to really grasp is, is that it is an approach, not a feeding method. It's not just about whether you use spoons or purees, it's about whether you trust your baby to feed themselves. And I would also like to urge them to get the right information to go to places like your podcast or the books that I've written to get the, the true, a true understanding of what Baby-Led Weaning means. And not just to rely on second, third, or fourth hand accounts from friends and media and so on. Because there's no doubt that, that it gets distorted as people adapt it for their own babies and their own families, which is fine.
Gill Rapley (31m 18s):
But if what you are told is an adapted version and then you further adapt it yourself and then pass it on to somebody else, the true essence of it could be lost and within that po possibly some of the, the, the, the basic guidance and and safety issues and so on. So make sure you, you find out from a reliable source what actually it is.
Katie Ferraro (31m 38s):
And Gill, as we close out this podcast series, I wanna say thank you to you 'cause you have been such a generous resource. You've acted as a primary source. Like when parents ask me about combo feeding, I wanna spoonfeed and do finger foods. You know, you are willing to come on the podcast and we talk about it and you explain what you mean and why putting a spoon in a baby's mouth is not Baby-Led Weaning. So you've shared so much of your time and your talents. I know you were the keynote speaker of our Baby-Led Weaning summit a few years ago and you've, you've done all these interviews, so thank you so much. I remember being so nervous to email you when we were coming up on episode 100. I had never met you. You're such a fan of your work and you are so gracious to come on and talk about, we did the history of Baby-Led Weaning and then the future of Baby-Led Weaning and the many other interviews in the interim, I've gotten to meet you in person and I'm excited to hopefully continue working with you in the future.
Katie Ferraro (32m 27s):
I'd love to just hear your final thoughts on the broader impact of Baby-Led Weaning. What legacy do you hope that it will leave for future generations of parents and children?
Gill Rapley (32m 38s):
I think I would like there to be a, a growing general understanding that we don't need to interfere. That our children will learn with our support and our encouragement and the little gentle guidance occasionally, but they don't need us to get in the way of what they're trying to do. They're born able to do so much and they really don't need us to interfere.
Katie Ferraro (33m 0s):
Well, Gill, as always, thank you so much. I appreciate it. It's always a pleasure to talk to you and thank you for putting Baby-Led Weaning on the map. 'cause I think it's just, as many parents say, it's the best parenting decision I made and I truly believe that. And it's hard sometimes to sell the idea of removing pain, right? To take away the pain at meal times to take away the need to short order cook. But when you sit there and you see the joy that a baby who's eating real food can bring to the family, I know that lights you up and makes you realize that this is all worth it.
Gill Rapley (33m 32s):
I've always felt that you, you talked about being a, a kind of a little overall to meet me and so on and or to email me that first time. Do you know I'm, I'm, I'm nothing special. What I've always felt is that I'm the, the little boy who's saying, do you know the emperor's got no clothes on? And it takes a while for other people to believe that and to tumble to that, but as people start to believe it, so you get a critical mass and eventually everybody is, is is able to see what I can see. But somebody has to be that little boy who's prepared to speak up. And I guess when it came to seeing babies struggling with Solid Foods and their parents struggling, I felt I could be that little boy.
Katie Ferraro (34m 15s):
And I know that you started this entire movement, this philosophy, this approach in the pre-internet era. And so your book, which was the seminal, the original book that you co-authored with Tracy Marquette, it is still so relevant. You have, you have redone it for the new round of research that supports this approach. And I encourage all parents to, to really read Gill Rapley's book so that you understand the philosophy of Baby-Led Weaning. But despite what people say about social media, and there's many drawbacks, as we all know, the power of Baby-Led Weaning, it's really seeing is believing. And so just like you said, when the chair of the Academy of the American Pediatrics, probably when he has his own grandkid and watches that baby eat real food, only then will he believe that you can do it.
Katie Ferraro (34m 58s):
When parents see a baby picking up strips of lamb on day four of starting solid foods and exploring with it and enjoying it and tasting it and learning the very, very first few things about learning how to eat, they can't say, oh no, babies can't eat meat because there you see it right there in front of you. And so I think part of what's kind of helped this, you know, the critical mass situation is, is leveraging the power of social media. And yes, there's, you know, I know a lot of the, the negative drawbacks, we've talked about this in the past about Facebook groups and people being judgmental or misinterpreting. At the end of the day when you see a baby learning how to eat real food and you recognize it doesn't happen overnight, and oftentimes we just see the highlight reel and the baby eating all the foods, but if you really, really delve into, wow, look at what a long process it is, but at the end of it, this child learns how to eat real food.
Katie Ferraro (35m 42s):
You can't refute that. This is possible. So I would encourage you to continue, you know, preaching the word I'm doing what I can on the video side. But I love seeing you and seeing you participate in social media because I do think that parents need to continue to hear from you in addition to reading your book, which I'm always recommending is if you wanna learn about this, you gotta get Gill Rapley's book. So any plans to redo the book again in the future?
Gill Rapley (36m 5s):
Not at the moment, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out because already we're, it was 2019 the last version. So by the time we get to another 10 years, 10 years after that, then I'm sure it will be time for a new one. But at the moment I'm, I'm not working on that. But yeah, I'm still there and interested and so yeah, there may well be a a another edition.
Katie Ferraro (36m 26s):
Well, Gill, thank you so much. It's always a pleasure to talk with you.
Gill Rapley (36m 31s):
Thank you.
Katie Ferraro (36m 32s):
Well, I hope you guys enjoyed that interview with Gill Rapley. I feel sad that episode 500 is here and done, but I'm not really done with the podcast. I'm gonna start back at episode one. I'm re-recording some things to make this more of an evergreen free resource for everyone out there. A lot of parents go back to episode one and listen. But something Gill Rapley said in, in today's interview is really important. It is important that we're getting our information about feeding from credentialed and trusted sources. And as the person who started this entire movement, I am so grateful that I have Gill Rapley as a resource to go to and ask her and have her come on and share her time, her talents, all of her knowledge. I do have a lot more episodes with her and I'm gonna re-release those same versions of them, same topics.
Katie Ferraro (37m 16s):
I just don't wanna go on creating more and more and more topics after 500. I think like 500 pieces of content about starting solid foods is pretty much all anyone needs. I'm just gonna clean it up and continue releasing two new episodes a week. I'll start by re-releasing the first 20 episodes of the show, though they've all been rerecorded. And then we'll move back into the regular pattern of a mini solo training episode on Monday and a feeding expert interview every Thursday. The entire compendium of episodes is always available to you@blwpodcast.com. Just type in the name or the topic or search up the playlist of stuff you wanna hear about. But thank you to all of the guests who have contributed over the years to this podcast.
Katie Ferraro (37m 57s):
I'm excited to kind of move into the version two of it, but I did wanna say a very special thank you again to Gill Rapley for being such an incredible colleague and for starting this amazing field to show us that babies really can eat a lot more foods than we give them credit for. If we trust,
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Katie Ferraro (39m 4s):
It's their ability to learn how to feed themselves. Today's episode show notes can be found at BLWpodcast.com/500. And a special thank you to our partners at AirWave Media. If you like podcasts that feature food and science in using your brain, check out some of the podcasts from AirWave Media. We're online at BLWpodcast.com. I'll see you back at number one, episode number one, shortly. Bye now.
The Program Baby-Led Weaning with Katie Ferraro
A step-by-step digital program for starting solid foods safely and navigating the original 100 FIRST FOODS™ meal plan with baby-led weaning.
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- 100 FIRST FOODS DAILY MEAL PLAN WITH FOOD PREP VIDEOS
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