Help Your Baby Learn to Sit Independently with Emma Hubbard, Pediatric OT

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<v SPEAKER_1>Are you trying to squeeze the starting solid food stuff into your already busy schedule?

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<v SPEAKER_1>Well, I have an all-in-one, done-for-you solution that's going to take the guesswork out of feeding your baby.

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<v SPEAKER_1>My online program is called Baby-Led Weaning With Katie Ferraro.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Contains all of my Baby-Led Weaning training videos, the original 100 First Foods content library, plus 100 day meal plan with recipes, like the exact sequence of which foods to feed in which order.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So if you want to stop trying to piece all this feeding stuff together on your own, I would be honored if you would join me inside of the program.

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<v SPEAKER_1>You can get signed up at babyledweaning.co/program.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So I have a Baby-Led Weaning cabinet in my kitchen.

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<v SPEAKER_1>It's where I store all of the feeding gear that we use for work.

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<v SPEAKER_1>It's 100% easy peasy.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And actually some of the easy peasy suction mats and bowls in there are more than seven years old at this point, still going strong.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I know you guys already have a lot of baby gear in your house, but when it comes to feeding gear, the easy peasy products are beyond compare.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Everything Easy Peasy makes is designed by their infant feeding expert.

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<v SPEAKER_1>She also happens to be my good friend and colleague, Dawn Winkleman.

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<v SPEAKER_1>She specializes in baby-led weaning and we were just chatting that the tiny cup that she designed for Easy Peasy, which was the first ever baby-led weaning cup, it's now five years old.

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<v SPEAKER_1>She sent us a prototype to try out with our twins when they were doing their 100 first foods and now it's won all sorts of awards and their feeding line has expanded so much.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I love that when we start babies on the tiny line of Easy Peasy feeding gear, they're getting developmentally appropriate tools to help them succeed at self-feeding.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So when your baby turns one, you size up to the mini line for toddlers, then it's into their happy line for bigger kids.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Easy Peasy has a new basics line.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I mean, their website's so big now.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Like we've been using that one for our own kids right now.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Dawn designed all of those products and it's been so fun to see our family grow kind of in line with the growth of the Easy Peasy feeding line.

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<v SPEAKER_1>They're also going backwards though because they are revolutionizing the pre-feeding space.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So even if your baby hasn't started solid foods yet, there are some great pre-feeding tools that Easy Peasy is now making.

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<v SPEAKER_1>You can check it all out at easypeasyfun.com.

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<v SPEAKER_1>My affiliate discount code for Easy Peasy is KD10.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I think that code is like seven years old too at this point.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I love using the Easy Peasy products in my house for my own kids, as well as the babies that I work with in my infant feeding practice.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And that I hope the Easy Peasy gear is as helpful to your family as it has been to mine.

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<v SPEAKER_1>That code again is KD10 for all of the fabulous feeding gear over at easypeasyfun.com.

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<v SPEAKER_2>If they don't have that head control, what tends to happen is like one of two things.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Their head will fall to the side.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And when that happens, that esophagus gets kind of twisted and that makes it harder to actually swallow food and it'd be unsafe.

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<v SPEAKER_2>It increases the risk of choking.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And then when their head is tilted, like if they don't have that head control and it tilts back, it actually opens up their airways, which increases the risk of aspiration, which is something where the liquid goes into the lungs and that's something you definitely want to avoid.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Hey there, I'm Katie Ferraro, registered dietician, college nutrition professor and mom of seven, specializing in baby-led weaning.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Here on the Baby-Led Weaning With Katie Ferraro podcast, I help you strip out all of the noise and nonsense about feeding, giving you the confidence and knowledge you need to give your baby a safe start to solid foods using baby-led weaning.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Your baby being able to sit relatively on their own is an important sign of readiness to eat.

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<v SPEAKER_1>But what exactly does that mean, or what does independent sitting even look like?

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<v SPEAKER_1>And are there things you can do to help your baby along the way before they're ready to start solid foods?

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<v SPEAKER_1>One of my favorite people in the baby space is back on the podcast today to cover all of this.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Her name is Emma Hubbard.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Emma is a pediatric occupational therapist.

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<v SPEAKER_1>She's a mom of three.

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<v SPEAKER_1>She runs an absolutely fabulous YouTube channel.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I think all new parents would benefit from watching.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Emma covers topics like developmental milestones, and she just has this really straightforward and approachable way of teaching concepts that I think sometimes as new parents, we're like, ah, how come nobody ever told me that?

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<v SPEAKER_1>So Emma was previously on the podcast back in episode 284.

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<v SPEAKER_1>We talked about postural support when starting solid foods, and that was kind of more about the mechanics of sitting and how that's associated with starting solid foods for babies.

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<v SPEAKER_1>But today I wanted to have Emma back to have her give some more practical applications, some exercises and activities, and then just kind of a higher level of understanding, like what are the physiological requirements that babies need to have on board before we can offer anything except infant milk?

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<v SPEAKER_1>So Emma will be covering topics like why your baby needs that head control that's associated with independent sitting in order to support a safe swallow.

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<v SPEAKER_1>She'll be explaining when your baby should be showing you the signs of independent sitting, so when should you worry if they're not doing X, Y, or Z, and then what should you be looking for along the way, and then how to properly position your baby in their high chair.

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<v SPEAKER_1>We'll have a little conversation about floor seats.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Both of us do not recommend them for feeding, but for two totally different reasons, so stick around for that.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And be sure to hit follow or subscribe to the Baby-Led Weaning podcast so that you'll get notified each week when two new episodes are live.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I do a mini solo training every Monday, and then I do a longer interview style episode with other experts on Thursday.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So Emma Hubbard is on YouTube at Emma Hubbard.

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<v SPEAKER_1>She's an excellent follow.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And with no further ado, here's Emma talking about how to help your baby learn to sit independently.

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<v SPEAKER_2>With all three of my children, I noticed that as soon as they hit that four month mark, they were no longer happy to kind of lie in my arms.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So when I would be sitting on the lounge and I'd rest them in my arms, so they were lying down, they would be trying to lift their head up to see what's going on.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And at that point, I knew that that was like a sign for me that they were ready to start practicing sitting up with my help, of course.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So instead of letting them lie in my arms, because they were no longer happy and quite vocal at telling me that, I began to sit them up on my lap so that their back was resting against my tummy.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And then I just placed my hands around their rib cage.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And when I did this, their muscles were having to work really hard just to get them to stay seated.

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<v SPEAKER_2>It wasn't too hard that they were falling over, of course.

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<v SPEAKER_2>But over time, they became a lot stronger in that position.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So by just making that really simple tweak in the way I held them when they were on my lap, I was helping them develop those foundational skills that were going to be required for them to sit up in the not too distant future.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So when you're doing that supported sitting, is there bottom on the floor or sitting on your thighs and resting on your lap?

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<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, so it depends on where I was.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So I've got two older kids.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So if I'm on, generally, it's like on a chair, so I'll be on the lounge or I'll be at the dining table and holding the little bub, and it's on your lap.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So they're sitting on your lap, but you can definitely do it on the floor as well.

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<v SPEAKER_2>If you've got the toddlers running around and you need to do some entertaining at that point too.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I know you're doing a lot of running around.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The last time you were on our podcast, Emma, you only had two kids and you were pregnant with your third.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So I've been following the growth of your family as I follow you on social media, Instagram, your fabulous YouTube channel.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Just wondering, how is life with three going so far?

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<v SPEAKER_1>Now I know your youngest is, I think, 18 months.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So you've been at this for a while, but is three really remarkably different than two?

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<v SPEAKER_2>No, it helped, I think, in that my oldest two, like there was a bit of a gap because we did this, like they launched the YouTube channel and all that kind of stuff.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So the YouTube channel was your third baby and this is your fourth.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Is that what you're saying?

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<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, true.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So it was, there's a nearly a four year gap.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So our first two, there was only two years, like I had two under two, and then there was a nearly four year gap.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So having that beer gap made it a lot easier because those other two were pretty self-sufficient at that point, and they were quite helpful.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And so life with three is really quite a lot of fun, particularly at this point, our 18 month old is now talking a lot.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So and becoming this morning, very vocal at telling us when she's not happy, but it's really cool seeing her talk and communicate to us and also her level of understanding.

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<v SPEAKER_2>It just blows me away every day.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And then our oldest two are now at school and they're doing sport on the weekend.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So it's just a lot more fun and busy, but it's lots of fun at this point too.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I know it was exactly a year ago then at this point that your third would have started Solid Foods.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Is there anything you can share about the transition from infant milk to Solid Foods for the third baby?

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<v SPEAKER_1>Was it different from your other two, if at all?

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<v SPEAKER_1>And do you find yourself just being more laid back about starting Solid Foods the more kids you have?

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<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Well, I did.

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<v SPEAKER_2>I got a lot more laid back the more kids I had.

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<v SPEAKER_2>I remember with my first, I was like super prepared.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And Katie, you know, like in Australia, we did where I was working, it was very much that spoon kind of led approach, like the spoon feeding approach.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So there was pureed food that I pre-made, and it was in the freezer ready to go with her.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And I remember when she started, like I gave her a watermelon.

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<v SPEAKER_2>I specifically remember giving her a watermelon at a baby shower.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And she was well and truly able to do it.

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<v SPEAKER_2>But it was the first time she had it.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And I was really quite anxious about it.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So I was hovering over her and every gag she made, I kind of jumped and reacted.

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<v SPEAKER_2>But with my third, it's a lot.

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<v SPEAKER_2>It was just, you get more comfortable with those kind of facial reactions or those gags to new food.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So I wasn't as reactive.

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<v SPEAKER_2>I was aware, but I wasn't stressing out.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And also, I guess the way we introduced foods was a little bit different.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So instead of having specifically made food for her, I just really gave her modified versions of what we were eating as a family, because she liked sitting at the table with us and she would get cranky if she wasn't eating at that point.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And it was a lot easier anyway.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So her first piece of food was actually rose pumpkin that she could hold.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And then I mashed another rose pumpkin and gave that to her on the spoon.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So it kind of used a combined approach.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And then she quickly progressed to finger foods.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So by seven months, we were just having finger foods.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Awesome.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And you weren't having to then go and puree other foods that she could just eat in finger food?

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<v SPEAKER_2>No, and I kind of skipped the puree.

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<v SPEAKER_2>I just mashed.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Mashed, okay.

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<v SPEAKER_2>For this time.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So I didn't even do it.

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<v SPEAKER_2>But I guess because the kids, the older kids are like a four and six at that point.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So the food's a bit softer in general.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Exactly.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And she's sitting there with you guys at the table and you're not having to make separate foods for her.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I just want to point out real quick something you said that was, yeah, you did some naturally pureed foods and you did a combination of finger foods, but by seven months, seven months, entirely on finger foods.

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<v SPEAKER_1>A mistake about baby-led weaning is that people sometimes think, oh, it means totally skipping purees.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And it doesn't.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Purees are an important texture for babies to master.

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<v SPEAKER_1>It's just not the only texture your baby can eat.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Sometimes encounter families that they're nine, ten months of age, and the only thing the child has had in their mouth besides infant milk is a puree.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And you're just missing this very valuable time when the baby wants to explore different textures and they can do it safely and they can feed themselves.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So I love that you do a combination, but you're going to finger foods pretty quickly.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And I think that's important for other families to hear, like, wow, our babies, they do progress a lot quicker than we give them credit for sometimes, I think.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And you just need to know how to present the food so it's safe for them to eat.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And I guess, like, six years ago with my first, that wasn't very readily available.

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<v SPEAKER_2>But now with your information, it's a lot easier.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So you can just know what to do.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Hey, we're going to take a quick break, but I'll be right back.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Hello, listeners.

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<v SPEAKER_3>This is Anne Bogle, author, blogger and creator of the podcast, What Should I Read Next?

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<v SPEAKER_3>Since 2016, I've been helping readers bring more joy and delight into their reading lives.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Every week, I take all things books and reading with a guest and guide them in discovering their next read.

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<v SPEAKER_3>They share three books they love, one book they don't, and what they've been reading lately.

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<v SPEAKER_3>And I recommend three titles they may enjoy reading next.

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<v SPEAKER_3>Guests have said our conversations are like therapy, troubleshooting issues that have plagued their reading lives for years and possibly the rest of their lives as well.

00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:12.980

<v SPEAKER_3>And of course, recommending books that meet the moment, whether they are looking for deep introspection to spur or encourage a life change or a frothy page turner to help them escape the stresses of work, school, everything.

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<v SPEAKER_3>You'll learn something about yourself as a reader, and you'll definitely walk away confident to choose your next read with a whole list of new books and authors to try.

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<v SPEAKER_3>So join us each Tuesday for What Should I Read Next?

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<v SPEAKER_3>Subscribe now wherever you're listening to this podcast and visit our website, whatshouldireadnextpodcast.com, to find out more.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I literally created the program that I wish I had when I was starting Baby-Led Weaning With My Quadruplets eight years ago, because back then it was, yes, there was information about what Baby-Led Weaning is and from a philosophical standpoint, why it's preferred to force-feeding a baby by spoon, but there was no good information on how to do it.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And so once we realized they'd had a hundred foods before they turned one, I was like, well, how did we make all those safe?

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<v SPEAKER_1>And, okay, I would do this differently next time and kind of work out some of the kinks.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And it's like, once you've figured it all out, you might as well share it with everybody, because it's kind of annoying to figure out yourself, but babies really can eat so many more foods than we give them credit for, but how to actually prepare them safely, I realized that there was a gap in the marketplace for sure.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Exactly.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And it's so much easier when you can just do it with your family food.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Yeah, especially with, I don't know what food costs in Australia is, but we're dying.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I mean, it is so expensive here.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I can't tell you how much money families are saving by just feeding modified versions of the same foods they're eating, because the price of all foods has gone up, but certainly the package and process and prepared baby foods that parents feel they have to buy.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Do you buy any baby foods for your babies with baby number three or like by seven, eight months of age?

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<v SPEAKER_1>Is it just different things that you guys were eating?

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<v SPEAKER_2>It's just different things that we're eating.

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<v SPEAKER_2>I will occasionally, you can kind of give, like if we're out and about, and I know she's going to be hungry in the afternoon, like then I would have like fruit, appropriate fruit with it, but also just yogurt.

00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:03.700

<v SPEAKER_2>And I like for ease, I would tend, I've got like these recyclable, not like washable pouches.

00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:08.140

<v SPEAKER_2>So I would just chuck it in the pouch because then I could use the yogurt from a tub.

00:14:08.560 --> 00:14:08.820

<v SPEAKER_1>Yeah.

00:14:08.940 --> 00:14:10.300

<v SPEAKER_1>Instead of buying individual ones.

00:14:10.500 --> 00:14:10.820

<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah.

00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:15.220

<v SPEAKER_2>And then I just, then I know she's not going to mess it everywhere, but it wasn't the only thing I was giving her.

00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:28.060

<v SPEAKER_2>So she still had the ability to eat all the other food, but also use utensils like it wasn't, which is the concern around pouches is that they don't explore the food and it goes straight in their mouth and they're not developing those skills.

00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:31.940

<v SPEAKER_2>But it's okay in the moment when you're out and about and you need something.

00:14:32.340 --> 00:14:32.800

<v SPEAKER_1>Heck yeah.

00:14:32.820 --> 00:14:35.800

<v SPEAKER_1>That's, whenever you're going to go off your schedule, that's when you definitely need to have snacks.

00:14:35.960 --> 00:14:44.060

<v SPEAKER_1>Because if you don't know where your next meal is coming from, when you teach them how to listen and respond to their hunger cues, you need to have food present so that they can.

00:14:44.540 --> 00:14:45.300

<v SPEAKER_2>Life gets busy.

00:14:45.340 --> 00:14:48.580

<v SPEAKER_2>When you've got, like, in the moment, you just have to sometimes have something.

00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:52.800

<v SPEAKER_1>There's a lot more car naps with the subsequent children than there were with the first one.

00:14:53.140 --> 00:14:59.860

<v SPEAKER_1>So our audience, Emma, is primarily parents of babies, age 6 to 12 months, just getting ready to, or have started that transition to solid foods.

00:14:59.880 --> 00:15:07.280

<v SPEAKER_1>And so we do a lot of teaching about the importance of identifying the reliable signs of readiness to eat, as I know that you do as a pediatric OT as well.

00:15:07.760 --> 00:15:12.600

<v SPEAKER_1>And one of those signs is the baby's ability to sit relatively independently before they start solid food.

00:15:12.620 --> 00:15:24.240

<v SPEAKER_1>So before we kind of get into how to help your baby get there, or if you really need to do that at all, could you just share a little bit about how sitting independently is related to a baby's readiness to start feeding themselves food?

00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:35.680

<v SPEAKER_2>I guess when a baby can sit independently or just sit up, it tells you that they can actually, they generally have good head control, which means that they can hold their head upright and straight.

00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:45.920

<v SPEAKER_2>Now, this is important when you're eating because when your head's in that position, the esophagus, which is the tube that goes, that carries the food from the mouth to the stomach, is also straight.

00:15:46.220 --> 00:15:51.360

<v SPEAKER_2>And that makes it easier for the food and liquid to pass down into the stomach and swallow.

00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:52.740

<v SPEAKER_2>So it's easier for them to swallow.

00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:58.860

<v SPEAKER_2>If they don't have that head control, what tends to happen is like one of two things, their head will fall to the side.

00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:06.660

<v SPEAKER_2>And when that happens, that esophagus gets kind of like twisted and that makes it harder to actually swallow food and a bit unsafe.

00:16:06.680 --> 00:16:08.100

<v SPEAKER_2>It increases the risk of choking.

00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:21.400

<v SPEAKER_2>And then when their head is tilted, like if they don't have that head control and it tilts back, it actually opens up their airways, which increases the risk of aspiration, which is something where the food goes into the lungs or the liquid goes into the lungs.

00:16:21.420 --> 00:16:23.740

<v SPEAKER_2>And that's something you definitely want to avoid.

00:16:23.760 --> 00:16:29.180

<v SPEAKER_2>So if they can sit, they generally have good head control and they can keep their head straight and in the middle of their body.

00:16:29.560 --> 00:16:34.720

<v SPEAKER_2>The other thing is if you can sit, they have good core like tummy muscles and back muscles.

00:16:34.740 --> 00:16:37.020

<v SPEAKER_2>So they're strong enough to keep themselves upright.

00:16:37.520 --> 00:16:46.220

<v SPEAKER_2>And that means that instead of focusing on the skill of sitting, the baby can focus on the skill of eating, which is a difficult skill in itself.

00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:47.940

<v SPEAKER_2>There's like 32 steps to eat.

00:16:47.960 --> 00:16:48.960

<v SPEAKER_2>So it's very hard.

00:16:48.980 --> 00:16:53.920

<v SPEAKER_2>So you want them to be strong enough to stay in that position and hold their head upright.

00:16:53.940 --> 00:17:01.280

<v SPEAKER_2>And then if they can sit, then that generally means that their hands are relatively free, which means that they can then touch the food.

00:17:01.300 --> 00:17:09.720

<v SPEAKER_2>Now that's really important because before anyone eats a piece of food, particularly if it's new, you're going to look at it, smell it, and then you're going to touch it.

00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:12.940

<v SPEAKER_2>And then based on those factors, you're going to decide whether or not you want to eat it.

00:17:13.300 --> 00:17:17.620

<v SPEAKER_2>So if they can actually touch the food, then they're going to be more likely to eat the food.

00:17:17.940 --> 00:17:23.420

<v SPEAKER_2>So it just improves, like it makes the meal time experience more pleasant for everyone, really.

00:17:24.060 --> 00:17:26.440

<v SPEAKER_1>And I love the way you explain the esophagus.

00:17:26.460 --> 00:17:27.340

<v SPEAKER_1>Like it makes sense, right?

00:17:27.360 --> 00:17:34.120

<v SPEAKER_1>If you're all slumped over and you don't have the capacity to keep your head up, and I'm going to offer you avocado and you've only ever had infant milk in your mouth, like it's not going to work.

00:17:34.140 --> 00:17:44.420

<v SPEAKER_1>And then the risk of choking, which parents are scared about, but the risk goes down remarkably if we wait until a baby's truly ready and we position them properly in the high chair and then prepare the food safely.

00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:46.520

<v SPEAKER_1>Could you share a typical timeline?

00:17:46.540 --> 00:17:49.820

<v SPEAKER_1>When would parents expect their babies to be sitting relatively on their own?

00:17:50.120 --> 00:17:55.840

<v SPEAKER_2>Typically, babies can learn to sit between, they learn like they must be sitting between six to nine months of age.

00:17:56.200 --> 00:18:01.020

<v SPEAKER_2>They can do it definitely earlier, but there's like many steps that they'll achieve along the way.

00:18:01.020 --> 00:18:11.300

<v SPEAKER_2>So the very first step is that head control, which I mentioned, so that's typically around four months of age, they can hold their head upright and there's less of that head bobbing, you know, in the newborn.

00:18:11.540 --> 00:18:13.720

<v SPEAKER_2>They just bob side to side and then falls.

00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:15.260

<v SPEAKER_2>They can actually hold it.

00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:19.720

<v SPEAKER_2>And then the next step is that they can sit with some support.

00:18:19.740 --> 00:18:24.340

<v SPEAKER_2>So that's either your support or the support of like positioning of pillows.

00:18:24.840 --> 00:18:30.280

<v SPEAKER_2>And then after that, it's sitting with independently like by themselves, but they're propping on their arms.

00:18:30.300 --> 00:18:37.040

<v SPEAKER_2>So both their arms are on the ground or on their thighs or on a stable toy to keep themselves upright because they don't yet have that strength.

00:18:37.600 --> 00:18:44.220

<v SPEAKER_2>And then after that, they can sit with just like one arm for support and then they sit with both arms free.

00:18:44.540 --> 00:19:00.320

<v SPEAKER_1>Okay, so when you were looking at your third baby, you know everything about infant development and milestones, when they're sitting with two hands propped and then they move to one, because parents are like, why doesn't someone make a framework that you say exactly how many seconds do they need to be sitting on their own to determine that they're strong enough?

00:19:00.340 --> 00:19:10.320

<v SPEAKER_1>And you know, all babies are different and they all get ready to sit at different times and it would be irresponsible of us to say, at this many days and weeks, your baby can start eating because every baby is different.

00:19:10.600 --> 00:19:20.080

<v SPEAKER_1>Did you notice like, okay, when she moved from one hand to no hands and had her hands free, were you like, okay, that's when I think this baby's ready to start solid foods?

00:19:20.100 --> 00:19:21.740

<v SPEAKER_1>Like, I'm sure you were paying attention to that.

00:19:21.860 --> 00:19:26.080

<v SPEAKER_1>Anything you can share about that transition to like, oh yeah, boom, now she's ready.

00:19:26.100 --> 00:19:32.080

<v SPEAKER_1>And if you remember, how old was your third baby when she was sitting relatively independently and you felt safe to start solid foods?

00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:41.700

<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, so she could sit momentarily, like a few brief seconds with both her hands up at five months, but I was like hovering behind and then she would fall.

00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:45.580

<v SPEAKER_2>So there was none of that, like protective reflexes there at that point.

00:19:45.660 --> 00:19:49.140

<v SPEAKER_2>But I think it's definitely by six months she could do it.

00:19:49.740 --> 00:19:51.120

<v SPEAKER_2>She could sit with her hands free.

00:19:51.420 --> 00:19:55.780

<v SPEAKER_2>I don't think it's like, it's not hands up, let's play for ages.

00:19:55.800 --> 00:19:58.800

<v SPEAKER_2>It's just a brief few seconds and they'll alternate.

00:19:58.820 --> 00:20:03.480

<v SPEAKER_2>So they might bring their hands up, but then they'll go back to one hand, then they'll come back up and then they'll go back.

00:20:03.900 --> 00:20:12.380

<v SPEAKER_2>I do get like hesitant when parents hold off if their kids aren't sitting with both hands free at eight months, because the impact that has on fine motor development.

00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:20.720

<v SPEAKER_2>So I'll often go, no, no, we can help your little ones sit so that their hands are free and they can play and they can do those things as well.

00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:25.540

<v SPEAKER_2>So like it's not, you have to hold off until they've completely mastered this skill.

00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:27.740

<v SPEAKER_2>It's just about providing support.

00:20:28.100 --> 00:20:30.680

<v SPEAKER_1>Hey, we're going to take a quick break, but I'll be right back.

00:20:36.340 --> 00:20:46.120

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00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:24.860

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00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:29.860

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00:21:30.340 --> 00:21:33.580

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00:21:40.313 --> 00:21:48.313

<v SPEAKER_1>And I liked earlier how you were talking about all the different things that are required to support these different muscle structures, and then also to chew and swallow and all the different steps.

00:21:48.793 --> 00:22:00.533

<v SPEAKER_1>It's exhausting for a baby, and you'll notice that with your babies when you get them in the high chair at first, the coordination to sit and to suck and to swallow and to breathe and do all that at the same time, they will get tired.

00:22:00.553 --> 00:22:04.193

<v SPEAKER_1>And I can see it right away, oh, this baby's fatiguing, oh, but they haven't eaten anything yet.

00:22:04.493 --> 00:22:10.353

<v SPEAKER_1>Yeah, but even sitting in that high chair by themselves and just starting to touch that food, that's the first step in learning how.

00:22:10.373 --> 00:22:13.253

<v SPEAKER_1>So don't, I think parents sometimes, they want their, expect their babies to run a marathon.

00:22:13.273 --> 00:22:17.633

<v SPEAKER_1>It's like, no, no, no, you gotta, you start with a slow jog and they're tired from that.

00:22:18.033 --> 00:22:20.753

<v SPEAKER_1>How long would you say your baby can sit in a high chair on average?

00:22:20.773 --> 00:22:25.053

<v SPEAKER_1>Parents like to know that too, before they're kind of gonna get tired, like a six month old who's just starting.

00:22:25.473 --> 00:22:27.553

<v SPEAKER_2>I know it's annoying, because it does depend on the kid.

00:22:27.673 --> 00:22:31.073

<v SPEAKER_1>No, that's, hearing you say that makes me not feel like such a broken record.

00:22:31.093 --> 00:22:32.553

<v SPEAKER_1>Every baby's different and it totally depends.

00:22:32.573 --> 00:22:33.333

<v SPEAKER_1>Let me see a video.

00:22:33.393 --> 00:22:34.253

<v SPEAKER_1>Where are you at right now?

00:22:34.273 --> 00:22:35.673

<v SPEAKER_2>It does depend on the, yeah, it is.

00:22:35.673 --> 00:22:38.733

<v SPEAKER_2>It's like, let me see a kid and then I'll tell you whether or not they're tied.

00:22:39.073 --> 00:22:40.213

<v SPEAKER_2>I guess it depends on the kid.

00:22:40.233 --> 00:22:46.633

<v SPEAKER_2>It depends on the high chair set up and the distractions that are going on around them, whether or not they're going to be willing to stay in that high chair.

00:22:46.653 --> 00:22:53.253

<v SPEAKER_2>I would honestly, those first, like first week that you're doing it, I'm limiting it to like five minutes.

00:22:53.273 --> 00:22:54.253

<v SPEAKER_2>Like it's not long.

00:22:54.653 --> 00:22:58.673

<v SPEAKER_2>I think the whole point in those first few weeks is just exploration.

00:22:58.973 --> 00:23:01.213

<v SPEAKER_2>If they get food in their mouth, that's amazing.

00:23:01.233 --> 00:23:03.293

<v SPEAKER_2>If they swallow it, oh my gosh, that's even better.

00:23:03.313 --> 00:23:04.753

<v SPEAKER_2>But it doesn't matter.

00:23:05.033 --> 00:23:11.533

<v SPEAKER_2>And I guess it's also knowing that what you're expecting in that initial phase on how much they actually eat is really small.

00:23:11.933 --> 00:23:13.013

<v SPEAKER_2>Like it's nothing.

00:23:13.413 --> 00:23:17.973

<v SPEAKER_1>And I think we can say this over and over and over and over again, and that every time you sit down with your baby, you're like, what am I doing wrong?

00:23:17.993 --> 00:23:18.733

<v SPEAKER_1>Why isn't this baby eating?

00:23:18.753 --> 00:23:23.533

<v SPEAKER_1>It's like, oh, this is going to take like a solid like eight weeks before they really like get going.

00:23:23.553 --> 00:23:25.953

<v SPEAKER_1>And parents are like, I'm just, I'm not interested in doing it for that long.

00:23:25.973 --> 00:23:29.393

<v SPEAKER_1>It's like, well, here, you got to feed this small person for the next 17 and a half years of their life.

00:23:29.413 --> 00:23:35.413

<v SPEAKER_1>Like you're going to have to wait it out and help them because every day you notice them getting a little bit stronger, sitting in a bit longer.

00:23:35.433 --> 00:23:38.413

<v SPEAKER_1>Oh my gosh, they're actually, you know, look, oh, there's a little bit of a munch chew going on.

00:23:38.433 --> 00:23:39.833

<v SPEAKER_1>Oh my gosh, I think they swallowed something.

00:23:39.853 --> 00:23:44.613

<v SPEAKER_1>It's like, it's like watching paint dry, but cumulatively you're helping them learn how to eat.

00:23:44.633 --> 00:23:48.853

<v SPEAKER_1>And you get to a point like your baby around 12 months of age, most of their nutrition can be coming from food.

00:23:49.313 --> 00:23:52.293

<v SPEAKER_1>It's just like watching it in slow motion is sometimes torturous.

00:23:52.313 --> 00:23:52.973

<v SPEAKER_1>I get that.

00:23:53.373 --> 00:23:54.593

<v SPEAKER_2>It is, sometimes it is.

00:23:54.873 --> 00:23:57.093

<v SPEAKER_2>But just take the stress off yourself as well.

00:23:57.113 --> 00:23:59.393

<v SPEAKER_2>Like it's not, you're not expecting them to have a big meal.

00:23:59.393 --> 00:24:00.673

<v SPEAKER_1>Yep, it's not your job.

00:24:00.893 --> 00:24:06.153

<v SPEAKER_1>So the last time we chatted in the previous episode, you were talking about this idea of practicing supportive sitting.

00:24:06.473 --> 00:24:08.993

<v SPEAKER_1>Could you just review for us, what does supportive sitting look like?

00:24:09.193 --> 00:24:11.573

<v SPEAKER_1>Should parents start that around four months of age?

00:24:11.733 --> 00:24:13.673

<v SPEAKER_1>How often, for how long?

00:24:13.693 --> 00:24:15.993

<v SPEAKER_1>Do you have a recommendation there or just do it whenever you can?

00:24:16.373 --> 00:24:22.133

<v SPEAKER_2>So I guess the thing is it would be like when your baby has good head control.

00:24:22.313 --> 00:24:28.913

<v SPEAKER_2>So around that four month mark, what I find is they just are not happy to lie in your arms at that point.

00:24:29.773 --> 00:24:34.153

<v SPEAKER_2>So then you just change the way you hold them when they're in your arms.

00:24:34.173 --> 00:24:42.473

<v SPEAKER_2>So instead of lying them down where they're constantly trying to pull themselves up to look around, you just sit them in your lap or on the floor.

00:24:42.493 --> 00:24:43.393

<v SPEAKER_2>So there's two options.

00:24:43.473 --> 00:24:53.593

<v SPEAKER_2>I would just sit them in my lap if I'm sitting in a chair or a lounge, or you could sit on the floor with your legs straight out in front of you and then you place your baby between your legs and so that they're sitting on the floor.

00:24:53.613 --> 00:24:56.753

<v SPEAKER_2>And then whichever approach you use, it doesn't really matter.

00:24:56.773 --> 00:24:59.753

<v SPEAKER_2>What's important is that you give your baby the support they need to sit.

00:25:00.253 --> 00:25:03.333

<v SPEAKER_2>So generally in that beginning stage, they're going to need a lot of support.

00:25:03.353 --> 00:25:06.453

<v SPEAKER_2>So your hands are going to be positioned around their rib cage.

00:25:06.933 --> 00:25:16.353

<v SPEAKER_2>And by doing that, you're just making them like, well, you're encouraging them to work on strengthening the upper part of their body because they're having to control that.

00:25:16.513 --> 00:25:19.313

<v SPEAKER_2>And you're essentially stabilizing the lower part of their body.

00:25:19.813 --> 00:25:24.953

<v SPEAKER_2>And then as they get stronger in that position, you just start to lower your hands down their trunk.

00:25:24.973 --> 00:25:28.353

<v SPEAKER_2>So you go from their rib cage and then probably the middle of their trunk.

00:25:28.373 --> 00:25:33.253

<v SPEAKER_2>And then you move your hands basically to their hips to give them that hip support.

00:25:33.653 --> 00:25:43.553

<v SPEAKER_2>At that point, I would then basically by moving your hands down their body, you're just making them, you're encouraging them to use more of their muscles to stay in that upright position.

00:25:43.573 --> 00:25:50.633

<v SPEAKER_2>So you're helping strengthen those muscles and you're also helping work on that dynamic sitting balance because they're having to constantly kind of adjust their posture.

00:25:51.113 --> 00:25:57.413

<v SPEAKER_2>And then when they can sit with your support just with your hands at their hips, I would then move it all down to the floor.

00:25:57.473 --> 00:26:04.993

<v SPEAKER_2>So you're sitting on the floor with your legs out straight in front of you and then your little ones between your legs and your thighs are touching their torso.

00:26:05.513 --> 00:26:08.953

<v SPEAKER_2>And then you would just put their hands on the floor.

00:26:08.973 --> 00:26:10.693

<v SPEAKER_2>So you would encourage them to do that propping.

00:26:10.733 --> 00:26:18.793

<v SPEAKER_2>So you put their hands on the floor or on a toy or on their thighs, and you would just gradually move your thighs away from their body.

00:26:19.093 --> 00:26:28.333

<v SPEAKER_2>Because when you create that little gap, you're just encouraging them to use more muscles to kind of like strengthening their muscles even further, to stay in that sitting position.

00:26:28.513 --> 00:26:32.933

<v SPEAKER_2>They're having to work even a little bit harder to keep upright with that dynamic sitting balance.

00:26:33.413 --> 00:26:39.893

<v SPEAKER_2>And then if they do topple over, which is likely to happen, your thighs are gonna be there to support them and bring them back up.

00:26:39.913 --> 00:26:42.693

<v SPEAKER_2>So they'll just kind of prop up on the thigh and come back up into sitting.

00:26:43.093 --> 00:26:45.413

<v SPEAKER_2>And then eventually they'll just not need your support at all.

00:26:45.493 --> 00:26:48.233

<v SPEAKER_1>That is like a beautiful time lapse of exactly what happens.

00:26:48.253 --> 00:26:50.933

<v SPEAKER_1>I feel like I'm watching a baby do it on a video as you explained it.

00:26:50.953 --> 00:26:54.113

<v SPEAKER_1>I always think you get to that point where you can like literally support them with one finger.

00:26:54.333 --> 00:26:56.873

<v SPEAKER_1>And you're like, okay, we're really close here.

00:26:56.893 --> 00:26:58.853

<v SPEAKER_1>And you went from like having to hold their rib cage.

00:26:58.873 --> 00:26:59.813

<v SPEAKER_1>It gets pretty amazing.

00:27:00.213 --> 00:27:06.213

<v SPEAKER_1>In addition to the supported sitting, what are some other activities that parents can engage their baby in in order to help them get ready for sitting if there is anything?

00:27:06.553 --> 00:27:09.513

<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, it's just doing all the usual stuff that you do with your little one.

00:27:09.533 --> 00:27:12.333

<v SPEAKER_2>So it's a lot of that free floor time play.

00:27:12.453 --> 00:27:15.593

<v SPEAKER_2>So you're letting them play on their back, letting them play on their tummy.

00:27:15.853 --> 00:27:19.873

<v SPEAKER_2>Now I do know some kids don't like tummy time and that's completely fine.

00:27:19.893 --> 00:27:24.913

<v SPEAKER_2>It's that traditional tummy time where they're lying flat on the floor, but there's lots of other ways that you can do tummy time.

00:27:24.933 --> 00:27:26.093

<v SPEAKER_2>So it's against your chest.

00:27:26.113 --> 00:27:33.333

<v SPEAKER_2>You can do it on an exercise ball, across your thighs, or even the way you hold them in your arms so that they actually have to lift their head.

00:27:33.833 --> 00:27:36.493

<v SPEAKER_2>And then it could be like the way you're carrying them.

00:27:36.573 --> 00:27:39.293

<v SPEAKER_2>So initially you're going to be carrying them with that head support.

00:27:39.313 --> 00:27:47.933

<v SPEAKER_2>So your hand's up near their head, but you'll just gradually move your hand naturally down their body as they get stronger, because you'll know that they don't need your hand there behind their head.

00:27:47.953 --> 00:27:53.413

<v SPEAKER_2>In fact, it'll probably irritate them because they want to be able to move it and look around, and you'll just naturally move it down.

00:27:53.433 --> 00:28:00.493

<v SPEAKER_2>So that's just increasing the amount of control they need to have over their head, but also increasing the demands placed on their upper body.

00:28:00.513 --> 00:28:04.813

<v SPEAKER_2>So it's just working on those foundational skills, encouraging them to do the rolling.

00:28:04.833 --> 00:28:09.633

<v SPEAKER_2>So you might assist them to roll over from their back to their tummy, and then from their tummy to their back.

00:28:10.173 --> 00:28:15.993

<v SPEAKER_2>And then it could be simple things like if they're sitting in your lap and you're helping them in that sitting position.

00:28:16.013 --> 00:28:31.113

<v SPEAKER_2>So you're like with their back against your tummy and they're looking out, you could just place a toy like on the dining table in front of you and them just reaching forward to grab that toy and then coming back is working on that dynamic sitting balance and improving those skills required for sitting.

00:28:31.133 --> 00:28:32.213

<v SPEAKER_2>So they're all really...

00:28:32.233 --> 00:28:33.733

<v SPEAKER_1>It's the stuff you're doing anyway.

00:28:33.753 --> 00:28:38.133

<v SPEAKER_1>Like you just be a mom and you can call it motor skill development.

00:28:38.393 --> 00:28:40.353

<v SPEAKER_1>But exactly, they're just sitting on your lap.

00:28:40.373 --> 00:28:42.933

<v SPEAKER_1>No, I love that because we don't want to over pathologize this.

00:28:42.953 --> 00:28:46.333

<v SPEAKER_1>I mean, this is all babies eventually learn how to sit, but some parents are like, okay, why?

00:28:46.333 --> 00:28:49.453

<v SPEAKER_1>You know, we're not encouraging you to make your baby do something they're not ready for yet.

00:28:49.473 --> 00:28:52.473

<v SPEAKER_1>You're just helping them get stronger for the thing that they're inevitably going to do.

00:28:53.113 --> 00:28:56.693

<v SPEAKER_1>Emma, I'm just curious, what are your thoughts on floor seats or container seats?

00:28:56.873 --> 00:28:57.873

<v SPEAKER_1>Are they necessary?

00:28:57.933 --> 00:28:58.833

<v SPEAKER_1>I have no opinions.

00:28:58.853 --> 00:29:01.293

<v SPEAKER_1>I just love to ask OTs because they all have different opinions.

00:29:03.713 --> 00:29:05.833

<v SPEAKER_2>So they do seem really helpful.

00:29:05.933 --> 00:29:08.853

<v SPEAKER_2>I know that they do look really helpful for parents.

00:29:08.873 --> 00:29:10.953

<v SPEAKER_2>They're not something I would recommend.

00:29:11.393 --> 00:29:12.893

<v SPEAKER_2>And that's for a few reasons.

00:29:12.993 --> 00:29:16.173

<v SPEAKER_2>Firstly, it can kind of, it can hinder gross manage development.

00:29:16.193 --> 00:29:19.913

<v SPEAKER_2>So babies tend to use baby floor seats when they're not yet sitting.

00:29:20.033 --> 00:29:22.573

<v SPEAKER_2>So it's between that three to six months mark of age.

00:29:22.573 --> 00:29:27.453

<v SPEAKER_2>And they, because they can't sit, parents are passively placing them in that sitting position.

00:29:27.533 --> 00:29:34.213

<v SPEAKER_2>And then the equipment itself is so snug, it has to be really tight around their body to help them stay seated.

00:29:34.233 --> 00:29:36.893

<v SPEAKER_2>So it essentially fix them into that sitting position.

00:29:37.413 --> 00:29:48.793

<v SPEAKER_2>And because of that, because it is so snug, your baby's not really developing, like they don't need to turn on their tummy muscles or their back muscles to stay in that seated position because it's essentially doing it for them.

00:29:49.293 --> 00:29:56.693

<v SPEAKER_2>And that can actually prevent the baby from being able to build that trunk control or that pelvic stability that's needed for independent sitting.

00:29:57.233 --> 00:30:07.213

<v SPEAKER_2>The other thing is these pieces of equipment can actually increase the risk of developmental dysplasia of the hip, which is where the hip joint partially or completely comes out of the socket.

00:30:07.673 --> 00:30:14.153

<v SPEAKER_2>And that's because these pieces of equipment encourage your baby's legs to go straight ahead and come together.

00:30:14.553 --> 00:30:19.773

<v SPEAKER_2>And that position actually is a known risk factor for developmental dysplasia of the hip.

00:30:20.473 --> 00:30:25.493

<v SPEAKER_2>And then lastly, there is a safety concern with these pieces of equipment.

00:30:25.513 --> 00:30:32.333

<v SPEAKER_2>So babies as young as three, there's actually babies have hurt themselves and sustained skull fractures from it.

00:30:32.753 --> 00:30:39.373

<v SPEAKER_2>And that's because as young as three, they can wiggle around in these pieces of equipment because it is equipment that should fit someone from three to six months.

00:30:39.813 --> 00:30:43.533

<v SPEAKER_2>And they might arch back and then topple out of the seat.

00:30:43.613 --> 00:30:55.473

<v SPEAKER_2>And if you continue to use baby floor seats when the baby is able to sit, which sometimes parents do because it contains them in a spot, there's a higher chance that they will actually wiggle out and try and get out of it.

00:30:55.913 --> 00:30:57.273

<v SPEAKER_2>So, and then injure themselves.

00:30:57.773 --> 00:31:01.393

<v SPEAKER_2>Now in saying that, I do know lots of parents like baby floor seats.

00:31:01.413 --> 00:31:05.913

<v SPEAKER_1>Yeah, because it is that awkward phase where you're like, they're not happy to lay on the floor yet, but they can't sit on their own yet.

00:31:05.953 --> 00:31:07.673

<v SPEAKER_1>I'm tired of carrying them around after three months.

00:31:07.693 --> 00:31:16.213

<v SPEAKER_1>So it feels like this, oh, this in-between thing, but you mentioned like the snugness, it's not a false sense of security, I call it, it's a false sense of sitting.

00:31:16.233 --> 00:31:17.973

<v SPEAKER_1>Parents will be like, oh, well now my baby's sitting.

00:31:17.993 --> 00:31:21.533

<v SPEAKER_1>And I just want to add on to that, that those seats are not intended for feeding.

00:31:21.873 --> 00:31:24.673

<v SPEAKER_1>Yet here in the United States, you're still allowed to sell them with the tray on it.

00:31:24.693 --> 00:31:29.193

<v SPEAKER_1>Well, what does a tray on a chair indicate to a parent who hasn't heard all this stuff from an expert like you?

00:31:29.253 --> 00:31:30.453

<v SPEAKER_1>Oh, I feed my baby in this.

00:31:30.473 --> 00:31:32.053

<v SPEAKER_1>No, well, their feet are sticking straight out.

00:31:32.433 --> 00:31:34.173

<v SPEAKER_1>Oftentimes they're not able to sit on their own.

00:31:34.193 --> 00:31:41.753

<v SPEAKER_1>Plus the one that we're both talking about has that big bulbous thing right in the middle, the pushes into the baby's stomach when they lean forward and causes them to vomit.

00:31:41.893 --> 00:31:48.833

<v SPEAKER_1>And a little bit of vomiting is to be expected when we eat, but if we're inducing vomiting, that child's gonna start to have negative associations with food and feeding.

00:31:49.093 --> 00:32:02.033

<v SPEAKER_1>They're completely inappropriate for feeding, except in some very, very rare cases when you're working with a pediatric dietician or OT specializing in feeding and the child has a situation or underlying medical condition where they need that supportive sitting, they can be okay.

00:32:02.053 --> 00:32:04.033

<v SPEAKER_1>But for the most part, that's not who's buying them and using them.

00:32:04.053 --> 00:32:08.513

<v SPEAKER_1>It's typically developing full-term babies and parents think there are others as just a cheaper high chair.

00:32:08.913 --> 00:32:11.953

<v SPEAKER_2>It is, and I think there's certain ones that are better than others.

00:32:12.933 --> 00:32:18.833

<v SPEAKER_2>So the Bumbo, it actually has like a little dip at the back and it encourages your baby to go in that posterior.

00:32:19.233 --> 00:32:20.333

<v SPEAKER_1>Which opens up their airway.

00:32:20.853 --> 00:32:22.413

<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, and it means they lean back.

00:32:22.533 --> 00:32:32.433

<v SPEAKER_2>So it opens up their airway, but it also makes it really difficult for them to touch food as well because they're so far back, like their arms are tiny, they need to be really close.

00:32:32.633 --> 00:32:36.993

<v SPEAKER_2>So they can't see the food, but also their ability to touch the food is quite challenging.

00:32:37.013 --> 00:32:39.873

<v SPEAKER_1>Hey, we're gonna take a quick break, but I'll be right back.

00:32:46.125 --> 00:33:00.465

<v SPEAKER_5>At a time when change is constant and we are pulled in far too many directions, we need a way to stay present to life and to increase our ability to remain calm, think clearly, and maintain our well-being.

00:33:01.045 --> 00:33:06.245

<v SPEAKER_5>Many studies indicate mindfulness improves our mental, emotional, and physical health.

00:33:07.425 --> 00:33:14.025

<v SPEAKER_5>On a mindful moment with Teresa McKee, you can learn how to practice mindfulness and enjoy its many benefits.

00:33:14.285 --> 00:33:23.145

<v SPEAKER_5>Tune in for guided meditations and to hear tips and advice from some of the most respected experts in the fields of mental health and mindfulness.

00:33:23.785 --> 00:33:26.205

<v SPEAKER_5>The world truly can be a better place.

00:33:26.765 --> 00:33:29.085

<v SPEAKER_5>It all starts with a mindful moment.

00:33:33.545 --> 00:33:40.065

<v SPEAKER_1>We had a family in our program with a baby who had hip dysplasia, who was in the brace, not even allowed to get out for mealtime.

00:33:40.085 --> 00:33:43.945

<v SPEAKER_1>And so the mom was like, listen, I know how the child should be positioned, but that's not possible because of the brace.

00:33:44.305 --> 00:33:52.185

<v SPEAKER_1>And another OT who's not a specialist in feeding did recommend the upseat because said that that one was approved for children that have hip dysplasia.

00:33:52.225 --> 00:33:54.025

<v SPEAKER_1>And again, that's not my area of expertise.

00:33:54.045 --> 00:33:56.485

<v SPEAKER_1>So I was just kind of listening to what she said.

00:33:56.545 --> 00:33:58.485

<v SPEAKER_1>Do you have any opinions about that chair?

00:33:58.845 --> 00:34:03.085

<v SPEAKER_2>So the upseat is probably the better one of the four seats that are available.

00:34:03.585 --> 00:34:07.465

<v SPEAKER_2>So it's better in that there is some sideway movements that the baby can do.

00:34:07.485 --> 00:34:12.105

<v SPEAKER_2>So they can work slightly on that sitting balance, that dynamic sitting balance.

00:34:13.285 --> 00:34:17.665

<v SPEAKER_2>And apparently the legs can fall to the side and out.

00:34:17.765 --> 00:34:20.225

<v SPEAKER_2>So that is a better hip position.

00:34:20.625 --> 00:34:23.125

<v SPEAKER_2>It's a healthier hip position than the other ones.

00:34:23.625 --> 00:34:28.365

<v SPEAKER_2>The thing is with all floor seats, there's always gonna be that safety risk.

00:34:28.385 --> 00:34:33.985

<v SPEAKER_2>So it's always important to make sure if you're going to use it, you place it on the floor, not on an elevated surface.

00:34:34.005 --> 00:34:36.025

<v SPEAKER_2>So lots of parents will might place it on the bench.

00:34:36.605 --> 00:34:41.225

<v SPEAKER_2>And then there's just that increased risk that if they do fall, it's gonna be a significant fall.

00:34:41.725 --> 00:34:49.245

<v SPEAKER_2>The other thing is what's really important is to just limit the amount of time they're in it because it is locking your baby into that position.

00:34:49.745 --> 00:34:53.325

<v SPEAKER_2>It's not necessarily working on those gross motor skills that we want to.

00:34:53.345 --> 00:35:04.745

<v SPEAKER_2>So there is the idea that you just, basically my view is if you're gonna use it, make sure that they spend more time playing, lying on the floor or on their tummy than they do in that piece of equipment.

00:35:04.765 --> 00:35:05.525

<v SPEAKER_2>So that container.

00:35:05.945 --> 00:35:07.725

<v SPEAKER_1>Just so they have that development.

00:35:07.825 --> 00:35:09.445

<v SPEAKER_1>I think that makes so much sense.

00:35:09.465 --> 00:35:12.545

<v SPEAKER_1>And at which point you're like, well, then why am I gonna buy something that I can only use for like a couple of minutes a day?

00:35:12.565 --> 00:35:13.145

<v SPEAKER_1>It's like, exactly.

00:35:13.165 --> 00:35:15.045

<v SPEAKER_1>Like most baby things, you probably don't even need it.

00:35:15.065 --> 00:35:16.205

<v SPEAKER_1>So just let them play on the floor.

00:35:16.645 --> 00:35:21.845

<v SPEAKER_2>So I just want to go back to the, feeding with the height in like a seat when you've got a hip spiker on.

00:35:22.105 --> 00:35:25.705

<v SPEAKER_2>There are high chairs that you can get that you can use the hip spiker.

00:35:25.725 --> 00:35:36.065

<v SPEAKER_2>So here it's the Granny Annie, and it's like a wooden high chair where you can simply take off, you know the surround that they have at the front, the baby insert, you can unclick that.

00:35:36.145 --> 00:35:37.985

<v SPEAKER_2>And then the harness is really good.

00:35:38.005 --> 00:35:41.325

<v SPEAKER_2>So you clip them into the harness and then you slide that back on.

00:35:41.665 --> 00:35:44.265

<v SPEAKER_2>So it is a safe option with the hip spiker.

00:35:44.665 --> 00:35:50.825

<v SPEAKER_1>Now for typically developing children, at what age would a parent start to be concerned if their baby is not sitting, in your opinion?

00:35:51.585 --> 00:35:52.405

<v SPEAKER_2>It's nine months.

00:35:52.645 --> 00:35:54.445

<v SPEAKER_2>I'd be concerned that they're not sitting.

00:35:54.865 --> 00:36:01.885

<v SPEAKER_2>So when we say sitting at that point, you need, it'd be being able to sit with their hands up free and exploring and playing.

00:36:02.285 --> 00:36:10.805

<v SPEAKER_2>If they can't do that at that point, I would go, I recommend that you would actually go see a physiotherapist, so in Australia, they're called pediatric physiotherapists.

00:36:10.825 --> 00:36:22.545

<v SPEAKER_2>In America, it's a physical therapist, just to get some tips on how to help your little one get to that point so that they can sit, because it does have implications on their fine motor development as well.

00:36:22.945 --> 00:36:29.485

<v SPEAKER_1>And is there anything else that you'd like to share about babies being able to sit relatively on their own as it pertains to readiness to sell feet?

00:36:29.505 --> 00:36:33.405

<v SPEAKER_1>Because once they cross over that six-month mark, like that's the next thing parents are looking for.

00:36:33.925 --> 00:36:40.465

<v SPEAKER_1>And what can you tell them if they're anxious about this or they're not sure what's important that you want them to leave this interview knowing?

00:36:41.005 --> 00:36:51.125

<v SPEAKER_2>Here in Australia and over there, it is six months that parents tend to start introducing solids and at this point, most kids can sit, but they can only sit briefly.

00:36:51.145 --> 00:36:56.145

<v SPEAKER_2>So it's not for that 10-minute mark, the length of time that is required to actually eat food.

00:36:56.565 --> 00:37:06.865

<v SPEAKER_2>And because they can sit briefly, so if you put them in the high chair, generally high chairs are just not appropriate for babies at that age because they're just too big.

00:37:07.385 --> 00:37:08.345

<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, they're way too big.

00:37:08.365 --> 00:37:21.665

<v SPEAKER_2>So if you put them in that high chair at that point, what's going to happen is after that, the amount of time that they can sit independently, they're going to fall to the side and they're kind of going to wedge themselves into that high chair to get that support.

00:37:21.885 --> 00:37:26.605

<v SPEAKER_2>So when they fall to the side, they're going to find it really difficult to see the food.

00:37:26.745 --> 00:37:32.165

<v SPEAKER_2>They're also going to find it difficult to reach the food because one arm's potentially going to be like jammed into that high chair.

00:37:33.005 --> 00:37:39.505

<v SPEAKER_2>And then they're also going to find it difficult to swallow the food, because if you remember their head, like that esophagus is going to be slightly twisted.

00:37:39.525 --> 00:37:47.385

<v SPEAKER_2>So that increases the difficulty required to actually swallow it, like it makes it more difficult to swallow the food, but it also increases that risk of choking.

00:37:47.765 --> 00:38:05.585

<v SPEAKER_2>So what I will say is it's really important at this point to adjust basically any high chair that you have and give your baby more postural support because you want them to stay at that high chair in that upright position for the length of time required to eat, remembering it doesn't have to be that long.

00:38:05.965 --> 00:38:12.605

<v SPEAKER_2>But also you want them to be happy and focus on the skill of eating, not be so exhausted just from sitting.

00:38:13.045 --> 00:38:14.885

<v SPEAKER_2>So it's really easy to do.

00:38:14.945 --> 00:38:19.365

<v SPEAKER_2>And often it's a step that we miss because we think a high chair should be suitable for a baby.

00:38:19.505 --> 00:38:21.405

<v SPEAKER_1>Oh yeah, how could they sell a high chair that's not safe?

00:38:22.105 --> 00:38:22.465

<v SPEAKER_2>I know.

00:38:22.885 --> 00:38:25.865

<v SPEAKER_2>So you just want to work back from the seat height.

00:38:25.885 --> 00:38:35.625

<v SPEAKER_2>So you want to make sure that your baby's elbows, when they're resting by their side, are at 90 degrees, which means that you tend to need to put towels that are folded underneath their bottom to bring them up.

00:38:35.985 --> 00:38:39.205

<v SPEAKER_2>Then you always want to make sure that their feet are supported at that point.

00:38:39.225 --> 00:38:44.145

<v SPEAKER_2>So again, their hips should be at 90 degrees, their knees should be at 90 degrees and their ankles should be at 90 degrees.

00:38:44.165 --> 00:38:49.865

<v SPEAKER_2>So when your baby's legs are in that position, you just want to raise that foot rest by adjusting it if needed.

00:38:50.325 --> 00:38:58.225

<v SPEAKER_2>And then from there, you need to then just support their sides because otherwise they will, even if you got them in that position, they're going to fall to the side eventually.

00:38:58.245 --> 00:39:08.205

<v SPEAKER_2>So that's just by placing, I just use rolled up towels and place them in the side between, so making sure they're below level with their ribs and then down to give them that side support.

00:39:08.225 --> 00:39:14.145

<v SPEAKER_2>And then they'll be able to sit and eat and stay relatively happy because they're not so exhausted from sitting.

00:39:14.165 --> 00:39:18.005

<v SPEAKER_1>They're not gripping onto the side of the high chair for dear life because they're afraid they're going to fall over.

00:39:18.025 --> 00:39:20.545

<v SPEAKER_1>And then they're so exhausted from doing that that they don't have any energy to eat.

00:39:20.985 --> 00:39:22.745

<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, so we just want it to be pleasant.

00:39:23.105 --> 00:39:27.225

<v SPEAKER_2>So it's often a step that's missed, but it does make a huge difference.

00:39:27.765 --> 00:39:32.565

<v SPEAKER_1>So Emma, tell our audience where they can go to learn more about your work and to support your business.

00:39:32.585 --> 00:39:34.265

<v SPEAKER_1>You've shared so much with us.

00:39:34.285 --> 00:39:40.065

<v SPEAKER_1>It's been so helpful and I think helped a lot of parents kind of ease their mind about this whole readiness to sit and start on their own.

00:39:40.345 --> 00:39:41.945

<v SPEAKER_1>Where are you at in the internet?

00:39:42.385 --> 00:39:44.605

<v SPEAKER_2>The best place probably to find me is just on YouTube.

00:39:44.805 --> 00:39:47.085

<v SPEAKER_2>So there's lots of videos on there.

00:39:47.405 --> 00:39:50.485

<v SPEAKER_2>So if you just get on YouTube and search for Emma Hubbard, you'll find me.

00:39:50.485 --> 00:39:55.805

<v SPEAKER_2>And then we do have a website, brightestbeginning.com, that you can find me as well.

00:39:55.825 --> 00:39:57.405

<v SPEAKER_2>But YouTube's the better option.

00:39:57.805 --> 00:39:59.065

<v SPEAKER_1>Well, Eva, thank you so much.

00:39:59.085 --> 00:40:00.045

<v SPEAKER_1>I always love talking to you.

00:40:00.065 --> 00:40:05.365

<v SPEAKER_1>I think we need to do a separate interview about high chair adjustments because I like all of your suggestions.

00:40:05.385 --> 00:40:09.265

<v SPEAKER_1>I use some of those, but I feel like you have a lot more that we haven't maybe heard of over here.

00:40:09.505 --> 00:40:10.565

<v SPEAKER_1>I'd love to share ideas.

00:40:11.025 --> 00:40:11.945

<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, that sounds great.

00:40:12.485 --> 00:40:13.385

<v SPEAKER_1>Thank you so much.

00:40:13.845 --> 00:40:14.485

<v SPEAKER_2>Thank you.

00:40:14.505 --> 00:40:15.085

<v SPEAKER_2>Thanks so much.

00:40:15.105 --> 00:40:15.905

<v SPEAKER_2>It was lots of fun.

00:40:16.965 --> 00:40:19.445

<v SPEAKER_1>Well, I hope you enjoyed that interview with Emma Hubbard.

00:40:19.465 --> 00:40:21.625

<v SPEAKER_1>She is one of my favorite people in the baby space.

00:40:21.645 --> 00:40:23.225

<v SPEAKER_1>I think she's absolutely delightful.

00:40:23.465 --> 00:40:25.505

<v SPEAKER_1>I always enjoy the opportunity to chat with her.

00:40:25.685 --> 00:40:28.865

<v SPEAKER_1>Her YouTube channel, if you want to check that out, is at Emma Hubbard.

00:40:29.065 --> 00:40:36.745

<v SPEAKER_1>I'll put all of the resources from today's episode on the show notes, which you can find at blwpodcast.com forward slash four five zero.

00:40:36.765 --> 00:40:39.805

<v SPEAKER_1>A special thank you to our partners at Airwave Media.

00:40:40.125 --> 00:40:45.445

<v SPEAKER_1>If you like podcasts that feature food and science and using your brain, check out some of the podcasts from Airwave Media.

00:40:45.685 --> 00:40:47.585

<v SPEAKER_1>We're online at blwpodcast.com.

00:40:47.865 --> 00:40:49.725

<v SPEAKER_1>Thanks again for listening and I'll see you next time.

00:40:58.642 --> 00:41:02.222

<v SPEAKER_6>Ever dreamed of traveling the world with your children without leaving your home?

00:41:02.642 --> 00:41:07.782

<v SPEAKER_6>Tune in to Culture Kids Podcast to embark on an incredible adventure right where you are.

00:41:08.522 --> 00:41:21.502

<v SPEAKER_6>At Culture Kids, we collaborate with cultural organizations, authors, and educators from all over the world to expand our children's horizons, inspiring them to embrace our differences while bridging communities worldwide.

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<v SPEAKER_6>And that's Culture Kids Podcast.

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<v SPEAKER_6>Here's your passport, let's go.