How Long Can I Breastfeed? with Ronietra Stewart, RDN, IBCLC

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<v SPEAKER_1>Okay, this email a mom just sent me.

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<v SPEAKER_1>My baby Amelia is seven and a half months and self-feeding since her disgust at me trying to spoon feed her purees on day one.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I've listened to 200 of your podcast episodes in the last four weeks.

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<v SPEAKER_1>200 episodes for real?

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<v SPEAKER_1>I love this, but I also totally acknowledge that you may not have time to listen to hundreds of hours of audio or hunt and peck all over the internet to piece together how to start Solid Foods if you're not sure where to start.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I have a free online video workshop called Baby-Led Weaning For Beginners.

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<v SPEAKER_1>It's very succinct.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I just re-recorded it.

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<v SPEAKER_1>It's packed with tons of videos about safely prepping food for your baby and what to do if they have an allergic reaction and how to lower your anxiety about choking risk.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Plus, everybody on this free training also gets a copy of my 100 First Foods list.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So you'll never run out of ideas about what to feed your baby next.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So you're welcome to listen to 200 plus episodes of this show.

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<v SPEAKER_1>But if you've got 75 minutes, you can clear on your calendar.

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<v SPEAKER_1>The Baby-Led Weaning For Beginners video workshop is probably a better use of your time.

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<v SPEAKER_1>You can get signed up for the workshop by heading to the website, babyledweening.co.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Again, that's babyledweening.co for the free Baby-Led Weaning For Beginners video workshop, where you also can grab a copy of my original 101st foods list.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Your baby choking on food is a very rare, but real risk, and CPR can save your baby's life.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I think it's very important that every parent and caregiver take an infant refresher CPR course before their baby starts solid foods.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I know in our house, everyone involved in helping with our kids and who helps to feed babies needs to know CPR.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And there's a fabulous online CPR course that I take every quarter and that I recommend to parents and caregivers.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And right now you can get this same online CPR course for free when you sign up for my choking prevention and response course.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So I developed the choking prevention and response course.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I co-teach it with Brandon Dorxson.

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<v SPEAKER_1>He's a certified CPR instructor from Thrive Training Institute.

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<v SPEAKER_1>We also co-teach with the speech language pathologist who specializes in pediatric swallowing.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So this course is for parents who are particularly anxious about their baby choking on food.

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<v SPEAKER_1>If that is you, I created the choking prevention and response course for you and inside of it, I'll show you how to stop unsafe seating situations.

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<v SPEAKER_1>We have a posture checklist proven to protect your child's airway.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I'll show you how to modify choking risk foods.

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<v SPEAKER_1>It's so important to facilitate safe swallowing for infants and then we'll troubleshoot feeding difficulties that can impact safe swallowing at meal times.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Things like pocketing and over stuffing and excessive gagging, we cover all of that.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And you get free lifetime access to the online CPR course when you register for the choking prevention and response course.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So in order to sign up for this special, you go to the website bit.ly slash CPR choking.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So I'll spell that out.

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<v SPEAKER_1>It's bit.ly slash CPR choking in order to get free online CPR when you register for the choking prevention and response course.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Breastfeeding is recommended exclusively, is what the recommendation is for the first six months, but then the addition of solids are to complement breastfeeding, not take over as a predominant source of nutrition, but to complement it.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So moms are still encouraged to breastfeed as they were before, but to slowly introduce solid foods, because we know around six months, babies need that extra iron, breast milk is typically lower in iron.

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<v SPEAKER_2>They need that iron and they need that zinc, which could come from protein-rich foods, beans, fish, eggs, things of that nature.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Hey there, I'm Katie Ferraro, registered dietitian, college nutrition professor and mom of seven, specializing in baby-led weaning.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Here on the Baby-Led Weaning With Katie Ferraro podcast, I help you strip out all of the noise and nonsense about feeding, giving you the confidence and knowledge you need to give your baby a safe start to solid foods using baby-led weaning.

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<v SPEAKER_1>How long can you breastfeed for?

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<v SPEAKER_1>And how long should you breastfeed for?

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<v SPEAKER_1>Depending upon where you live in the world, that answer varies dramatically.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Worldwide, there's some areas where weaning off of the breast happens when a child is age four or age five.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And if you think about the United States, things look dramatically different.

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<v SPEAKER_1>If you're breastfeeding, you've definitely thought about what it's gonna stop, right?

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<v SPEAKER_1>Either because you're struggling and it is not something you wanna do forever, or maybe it's because you absolutely love breastfeeding and you're starting to get sad about the day when it will all come to an end.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Almost every major health body is aligned on this idea of exclusive breastfeeding for the first six months of life being ideal for a baby.

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<v SPEAKER_1>In fact, that's what informs all of my education about delaying the start of solid foods, right?

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<v SPEAKER_1>Because babies don't need to eat anything except infant milk.

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<v SPEAKER_1>That's breast milk or formula for the first six months of their life.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And so when doctors or other sources tell parents to start solid foods at four or five months of age, I maintain that that is an anti-breastfeeding message.

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<v SPEAKER_1>My guest today is one of the most pro-breastfeeding people that you will ever meet and love.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Her name is Ronietra Steward.

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<v SPEAKER_1>She goes by Roni.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Roni is a registered dietician and an Ibclc.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So she's an international board certified lactation consultant.

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<v SPEAKER_1>She is a breastfeeding pro and guru.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Roni works for the WIC program.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So that is in the United States, our USDA's Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for women, infants and children.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Okay, and this is a program that half of all babies born in the US are on the WIC program.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Every time I hear that statistic, it just blows my mind.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So I'll say it again.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Half of all babies born in the US receive WIC benefits, which include not only wholesome foods, but also nutrition education from qualified and credentialed professionals like Roni.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So Roni works for PHFE WIC here in California.

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<v SPEAKER_1>This is also the nation's largest WIC agency.

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<v SPEAKER_1>They are like the golden child, like a model in so many ways for different programs throughout the country.

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<v SPEAKER_1>But as Roni will explain today, they actually piloted the original breastfeeding peer counselor program in WIC that has been so successful and so emulated.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And one area where Roni has found professionally that like a lot of breastfeeding moms struggle is what to do once the baby turns six months of age, right?

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<v SPEAKER_1>Cause you get all sorts of grief for continuing to nurse a quote unquote older baby, but that baby is still getting massive benefits from continued breastfeeding.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And mom also reaps a lot of benefits herself from continuing to breastfeed.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So Roni's here today to talk about extended breastfeeding, going beyond six months of age.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And maybe you've contemplated, given it up at six months or 12 months, but I think when you hear this conversation, you might perhaps consider pushing that timeline for breastfeeding a little bit further out.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Also as an absolute and abject failure at breastfeeding myself for all seven of my kids, I personally think the thought of nursing a three or four year old, like that is totally foreign to me.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I pumped like crazy for all those kids, but you can bet I was counting down the days till I could stop.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So I just want to acknowledge that extended breastfeeding may not be a possibility or a desire or a reality for many new moms.

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<v SPEAKER_1>But I also want to give the space and the opportunity for Roni, who is a dietician and an Ibclc to share this message about the benefits of extended breastfeeding, which as she'll mention, dovetails with the World Health Organization and now the American Academy of Pediatrics who jointly recommend continuing breastfeeding until age two.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So if you're at this intersection of starting solid foods and breastfeeding, I hope you guys enjoy this interview.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Please take a second wherever you're listening to this episode to hit subscribe or follow this Baby-Led Weaning podcast so that you can get notified when each of the two episodes that I release each week are live.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I do a mini Baby-Led Weaning training episode every Monday and then a longer feeding expert interview on Thursday with people like Roni.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So please do subscribe.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And if you have a mom friend or a colleague or a family member who's also starting solid food soon, please tell them about the Baby-Led Weaning With Katie Ferraro podcast because your guys' word of mouth recommendations are so important.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And it's the way other parents can find this information if they're out there searching for it.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So with no further ado, I want to bring on Ronietra Steward, who is here to talk about how long can you breastfeed for?

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<v SPEAKER_2>During my education with prenatals at WIC, I've noticed some of them would say that they want to breastfeed until their, you know, until their baby turns six months.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And I would always kind of like push back and kind of ask, well, why until six months?

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<v SPEAKER_2>Why not longer?

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<v SPEAKER_2>And then the most responses that I would get would be, well, that's when they start to eat solids.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So, you know, I don't need to breastfeed anymore.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And then they'll also mention like having to return to work and then just kind of educating them on breastfeeding is recommended exclusively for the first six months, but then the intro of solids or complimentary foods is recommended at that age.

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<v SPEAKER_2>But breastfeeding is usually recommended to continue up up until at least two years of age, which is from the American Academy of Pediatrics.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Their recommendation used to be to go up to a year, but they've recently aligned with the World Health Organization, I would say about maybe two years ago, where they're recommending that moms breastfeed up to two.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And just letting them know that they have options, like, okay, if you're returning to work in six months, we have pumps that we can loan to you.

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<v SPEAKER_2>If there's supposed to be breastfeeding, it's very easy to be able to loan them out of pump if they're working.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And just letting them know that there's benefits to breastfeeding beyond six months.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I love that idea, beyond six months, because you're right, like, we've done a good job of, I think, trying to get the message out there that exclusive breastfeeding is all your baby needs for the six months, but then it's like that latter half of infancy, your parents are like, well, then they start foods, like your client said.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And it's like, no, there's benefits, and that's what we're gonna talk about today, like the benefits of going beyond six months of age, acknowledging that for some families, it's not working, they're done, maybe there's medical stuff.

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<v SPEAKER_1>There's lots of reasons why a mom may choose not to breastfeed, but there's a lot of reasons why you might consider going beyond.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So before we get there, I wanna back up, tell us a little bit about your background.

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<v SPEAKER_1>I know you spent your professional career at WIC, but you've moved through a lot of different areas to get to where you are now to be in charge of the Peer Breastfeeding Counseling Program at PHFE WIC.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And you guys are the biggest WIC program in the country, if I'm not mistaken.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Yes, we are.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And we actually have the largest Peer Counseling Program as well.

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<v SPEAKER_2>We actually just turned 20 years old, we had a celebration, actually a week ago today, where we were one of the first pilot projects of the state to roll out a PC program.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And we just turned 20, actually last week, so.

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<v SPEAKER_1>How did you get into breastfeeding and what is it about this area of nutrition that is of such interest to you?

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<v SPEAKER_2>When I got to WIC, I was just super excited about learning about breastfeeding, what the benefits were to mom and baby, why it's recommended.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And I just wanted to learn more and more.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And through my training with the WIC, I felt like it was okay, but I needed a little bit more.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So I decided to go get my certified lactation educator certificate.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And I felt like that helped as well.

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<v SPEAKER_2>But then when we started Cinnamoms, which is a program for our African-American participants, to encourage breastfeeding, to kind of combat those low breastfeeding rates and our unacceptable infant and maternal mortality rates, there was an opportunity that came up to become an Ibclc to kind of help diversify the field.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And I, of course, jumped on board with that.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And I worked as an RD.

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<v SPEAKER_2>I became, after I did my dietetic internship, I became a supervisor of a WIC center, worked there for some years, and it always kind of bothered me that I wasn't really using my Ibclc hat to the fullest, I think, of my abilities.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And I just decided to leave the department that I was in, still with WIC, but to join the breastfeeding department so I could actually utilize my Ibclc credential, along with my RD credential as well.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And I became a supervisor of peer counselors.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So I kind of made a lateral move just to kind of get into the breastfeeding department.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Supervising peer counselors, learning about what they do.

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<v SPEAKER_2>If you are a WIC participant, you're pregnant, you want to breastfeed, definitely ask for a peer counselor.

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<v SPEAKER_2>And then from there, I just jumped from supervising on up to management where I am today.

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<v SPEAKER_1>Hey, we're going to take a quick break, but I'll be right back.

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<v SPEAKER_1>We have a lot of parents who listen, moms, a lot of times confused about breastfeeding, because once solid foods are introduced to their baby's diet, they think like, well, I don't really know what goes on with breastfeeding.

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<v SPEAKER_1>So could you explain how breastfeeding changes or evolves when the baby starts solid foods?

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<v SPEAKER_2>So with breastfeeding, like I said, with the American Academy of Pediatrics, breastfeeding is recommended, you know, exclusively, is what the recommendation is for the first six months, but then the addition of solids are to complement breastfeeding, not take over as the predominant source of nutrition, but to complement it.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So moms are still encouraged to breastfeed as, you know, they were before, but to slowly introduce solid foods, because we know around six months babies need like that extra iron, breast milk is typically lower in iron.

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<v SPEAKER_2>They need that iron and they need that zinc, which could come from like protein-rich foods, beans, fish, you know, eggs and things of that nature.

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<v SPEAKER_2>But yeah, the goal is not to just, you know, get to six months and stop.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Breastfeeding should continue, I would say, at least up to the age of two or whatever, or it's mutually exclusive between mom and baby whenever they want to stop.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Because I have co-workers that are breastfed, they are children to three and four years old.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So, you know, it's really between mom and baby when she wants to stop breastfeeding.

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<v SPEAKER_2>But once solids are introduced, they're just to compliment your breastfeeding, not to take over as a primary source.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Just like with anybody that's formula feeding, when you formula feed your baby and you introduce solids, you don't stop the formula.

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<v SPEAKER_2>We recommend that up until age one.

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<v SPEAKER_1>You want to, because it's expensive, but I know-

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<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, but we don't recommend stopping that.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And the WIC program is going to give you formula until 12 months, but after 12 months of age, ideally we're transitioning that baby to cow's milk if that's what the family drinks.

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<v SPEAKER_1>But breastfeeding, you can keep going if you want to.

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<v SPEAKER_1>And I love that you keep pointing out if mom and baby are into it.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Yes, are into it.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, the recommendation truly is up to the age of two, both the American Academy of Pediatrics and the World Health Organization.

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<v SPEAKER_2>But literally the worldwide age of weaning is really around five.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So when people hear that they are breastfeeding two-year-olds, it's like, that's okay.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Like I mentioned, I have co-workers that are breastfed babies.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So they were two, three, four.

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<v SPEAKER_2>Worldwide age of weaning is five when kids actually start school.

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<v SPEAKER_2>So it's really truly between mom and baby.

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<v SPEAKER_2>I mean, past one year of age, then the solid foods become the primary nutrition.

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<v SPEAKER_2>It kind of reverses it.

00:14:37.815 --> 00:14:40.935

<v SPEAKER_2>Then breastfeeding is there as an added layer of protection and support.

00:14:41.235 --> 00:14:43.275

<v SPEAKER_2>Mom is still providing immunity to the baby.

00:14:44.095 --> 00:14:48.835

<v SPEAKER_2>And then you have that comfort and bonding moments as well with breastfeeding past one year.

00:14:49.155 --> 00:14:55.195

<v SPEAKER_1>Roni, let's say you have a mom and she got to the one year mark and baby's getting most of their nutrition from food.

00:14:55.735 --> 00:15:00.015

<v SPEAKER_1>Beyond one year, can we talk about frequency and duration of breastfeeding sessions?

00:15:00.035 --> 00:15:05.875

<v SPEAKER_1>How does that look different in the second year of life compared to the maybe latter half of infancy?

00:15:05.895 --> 00:15:10.695

<v SPEAKER_1>So like once you cross over that one year mark, what can you expect to see change wise with regards to frequency and duration?

00:15:11.155 --> 00:15:20.655

<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, frequency duration initially with the mom that is supposed to be breastfeeding, we recommend you're going to be breastfeeding 10 more times in the 24 hours, then as they get a little older, hit the six month mark, that may decrease.

00:15:20.675 --> 00:15:26.855

<v SPEAKER_2>But once they're past one, it could be whatever you guys decide it could be a few times a day, two, three times a day.

00:15:26.875 --> 00:15:29.895

<v SPEAKER_2>It's really between what mom and baby wants to do.

00:15:30.295 --> 00:15:35.115

<v SPEAKER_2>Usually when babies want to take a nap or go to sleep, they'll usually latch, want to breastfeed.

00:15:35.135 --> 00:15:38.615

<v SPEAKER_2>So I would say usually around two to three times, or it could be more than that.

00:15:38.635 --> 00:15:41.895

<v SPEAKER_2>It's really between mom and baby, the frequency and duration.

00:15:42.195 --> 00:15:43.355

<v SPEAKER_1>I know we talked a little bit.

00:15:43.375 --> 00:15:44.715

<v SPEAKER_1>I wanted to ask about the guidelines.

00:15:44.735 --> 00:15:47.015

<v SPEAKER_1>Okay, how long should moms breastfeed their babies?

00:15:47.035 --> 00:15:50.815

<v SPEAKER_1>I don't like that word should because this is all personal preference.

00:15:50.835 --> 00:15:51.295

<v SPEAKER_1>This is-

00:15:51.375 --> 00:15:52.315

<v SPEAKER_2>Or recommendation.

00:15:52.335 --> 00:15:58.175

<v SPEAKER_1>Or recommendation, but you're saying AAP and World Health Organization both say breastfeed until two.

00:15:58.835 --> 00:16:01.295

<v SPEAKER_1>Is WIC aligned with that message?

00:16:01.315 --> 00:16:03.415

<v SPEAKER_1>Are you guys now sharing that message?

00:16:03.435 --> 00:16:06.295

<v SPEAKER_1>Hey mom, you could consider doing this up until two.

00:16:06.735 --> 00:16:17.095

<v SPEAKER_2>Yes, because we used to really align with the American Academy of Pediatrics and then at six months, introducing solids, but they recently changed their stance or recommendation to align with the World Health Organization.

00:16:17.455 --> 00:16:21.035

<v SPEAKER_2>And we educate at WIC as well that the recommendation is up to two.

00:16:21.035 --> 00:16:32.975

<v SPEAKER_2>So when I hear moms say, oh, I want to go until six months or even a year, I usually say, well, you know, the American Academy of Pediatrics, you know, they recommended up until two years of life.

00:16:32.995 --> 00:16:37.315

<v SPEAKER_2>But you know, truly it's, you know, it's up to you and baby, but that is their recommendation.

00:16:37.515 --> 00:17:03.475

<v SPEAKER_1>And I like that pointing out that the worldwide, you know, weaning age is somewhere closer to five, because that is remarkably different, just because what you see around you in our country, that doesn't mean what happens all over the world, where a lot of times there's less nutritious food supply available or it might cost a greater percentage of disposable income or whatever the case may be, we know there's lots and lots and lots of things that contribute to breastfeeding rates, but this idea of like, just cause all your friends stop at six months, you know, doesn't mean that you have to also, I think that's great messaging.

00:17:03.935 --> 00:17:10.655

<v SPEAKER_2>Yes, I always say compliments, solid should compliment breastfeeding or even if you're formula feeding, it's not to take over.

00:17:11.055 --> 00:17:14.835

<v SPEAKER_1>You touched a little on the nutritional benefits for babies of continuing breastfeeding.

00:17:14.855 --> 00:17:18.355

<v SPEAKER_1>You mentioned iron and no one's bashing breast milk and saying it's low in iron.

00:17:18.375 --> 00:17:22.895

<v SPEAKER_1>That type of iron that's in there is very easily absorbed by the baby for the first six months of life.

00:17:23.335 --> 00:17:32.155

<v SPEAKER_1>We start those solid foods to start giving them some other sources of nutrition and practice with textures and swallowing and all of the different developmental things that are associated with learning how to eat, not just nutrition.

00:17:32.475 --> 00:17:38.635

<v SPEAKER_1>What are the nutritional benefits for babies and for moms of continuing breastfeeding beyond six months of age?

00:17:38.975 --> 00:17:42.555

<v SPEAKER_2>Okay, I think with duration, definitely the benefits are greater.

00:17:42.575 --> 00:17:48.615

<v SPEAKER_2>For mothers that breastfeed, whether it's up to six months or even beyond, which is even better, there are protections.

00:17:49.075 --> 00:17:50.115

<v SPEAKER_2>It helps mothers.

00:17:50.515 --> 00:17:55.395

<v SPEAKER_2>They're more protected against reproductive types of cancers like breast cancer or ovarian and uterine cancer.

00:17:55.755 --> 00:17:58.175

<v SPEAKER_2>It can also protect from type two diabetes.

00:17:58.475 --> 00:17:59.815

<v SPEAKER_2>It helps relieve stress.

00:17:59.975 --> 00:18:10.695

<v SPEAKER_2>And for babies, it's just that whole, the protection of mother being able to pass on antibodies and protect the baby immunologically, it's just priceless.

00:18:11.155 --> 00:18:15.095

<v SPEAKER_1>What about the moms who want to continue breastfeeding after they introduce solids?

00:18:15.295 --> 00:18:17.475

<v SPEAKER_1>You got like, there's a competitor at play.

00:18:17.495 --> 00:18:18.275

<v SPEAKER_1>There's foods in there.

00:18:18.295 --> 00:18:22.555

<v SPEAKER_1>Not say they're competing, but you were the only show in town for the first six months of life.

00:18:22.815 --> 00:18:24.355

<v SPEAKER_1>And now we're starting some solid foods.

00:18:24.655 --> 00:18:29.035

<v SPEAKER_1>Any strategies for moms on maintaining their milk supply after they start solid foods?

00:18:29.055 --> 00:18:36.815

<v SPEAKER_1>Because theoretically weaning in action is there's gonna be shorter, less frequency, shorter duration as the baby gets more proficient at eating foods.

00:18:36.835 --> 00:18:38.075

<v SPEAKER_1>How does mom keep her milk supply up?

00:18:38.395 --> 00:18:42.615

<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, I would recommend mom maybe nurse before offering solids.

00:18:42.635 --> 00:18:48.555

<v SPEAKER_2>So maybe breastfeeding before, and then introducing whatever you're gonna offer for that day or at that moment.

00:18:48.795 --> 00:18:58.455

<v SPEAKER_2>Just making sure baby's latched and have breastfed, and then maybe offering the solids to kind of help make sure that mom is continuing to remove breast milk so that she'll continue to produce it.

00:18:58.475 --> 00:18:59.815

<v SPEAKER_2>Because that's truly how you make milk.

00:18:59.835 --> 00:19:01.935

<v SPEAKER_2>You gotta remove it to replace it.

00:19:01.955 --> 00:19:08.715

<v SPEAKER_2>So if mom is breastfeeding first, and then like offering solids at meal time, I think that will be helpful as well.

00:19:09.035 --> 00:19:14.275

<v SPEAKER_1>And I think the other point there too, is when your baby starts solid foods, they're not very proficient at eating food yet.

00:19:14.295 --> 00:19:16.975

<v SPEAKER_1>And so they can't use that food to make the feelings of hunger go away.

00:19:16.995 --> 00:19:21.835

<v SPEAKER_1>So a big mistake I see parents making is like, they're bringing their six, seven month old baby to the table hungry.

00:19:21.855 --> 00:19:23.215

<v SPEAKER_1>It's like, no.

00:19:23.595 --> 00:19:24.655

<v SPEAKER_1>Feed that baby.

00:19:24.715 --> 00:19:27.495

<v SPEAKER_1>Do your regular infant milk feed, be that breastfeeding or bottle feeding.

00:19:27.935 --> 00:19:33.155

<v SPEAKER_1>With bottle feeding, sometimes they're taking a lot more volume and we need a little pad at the end to help the stomach empty.

00:19:33.175 --> 00:19:38.155

<v SPEAKER_1>But like a breastfeeding baby is not taking down six to eight ounces at seven, eight months of age.

00:19:38.175 --> 00:19:39.955

<v SPEAKER_1>So you can have that breast milk snack.

00:19:40.115 --> 00:19:43.235

<v SPEAKER_1>So mom feels comfortable, the baby feels satiated.

00:19:43.695 --> 00:19:47.695

<v SPEAKER_1>And then they're gonna be a little bit more alert at the table and more likely to engage in eating the food.

00:19:48.035 --> 00:19:53.675

<v SPEAKER_1>And then down the road, when they learn how to eat, that's when like, oh, food can help alleviate hunger, but definitely not at the beginning.

00:19:53.695 --> 00:19:55.475

<v SPEAKER_1>You've got to keep those infant milk feeds going.

00:19:55.495 --> 00:19:57.035

<v SPEAKER_1>So that's a great reminder.

00:19:57.195 --> 00:20:03.435

<v SPEAKER_1>What are some of the common challenges that you see moms facing who want to maintain breastfeeding when they're transitioning to solid foods?

00:20:04.075 --> 00:20:07.235

<v SPEAKER_2>I would say, usually at that time, moms, some moms are returning to work.

00:20:07.255 --> 00:20:17.495

<v SPEAKER_2>So really they're returning to work and having to pump, just kind of helping moms come, you know, have a pumping plan put in place to kind of make sure that when she's away from baby, we're still removing milk.

00:20:17.515 --> 00:20:19.175

<v SPEAKER_2>So that way we can protect milk supply.

00:20:19.555 --> 00:20:20.995

<v SPEAKER_2>I would say that's the biggest one.

00:20:21.015 --> 00:20:26.815

<v SPEAKER_2>And if for some moms that maybe don't have to return to work, but notice a slight dip, that slight dip is kind of normal.

00:20:26.835 --> 00:20:32.195

<v SPEAKER_2>Your body's pretty much down regulating as baby eats more and more solids.

00:20:32.595 --> 00:20:39.735

<v SPEAKER_2>So for mothers that's bothered by that, like down regulation, they want to keep up their milk supply at, you know, at the level that they were before they introduced solids.

00:20:40.035 --> 00:20:42.855

<v SPEAKER_2>We would recommend either latching more or they could pump basically.

00:20:43.195 --> 00:20:46.955

<v SPEAKER_2>And especially if they're introducing the cup, they could pump and put their breast milk in the cup.

00:20:47.075 --> 00:20:50.635

<v SPEAKER_1>And I love that too, because we want the babies to go from breast or bottle to an open cup.

00:20:50.655 --> 00:20:52.915

<v SPEAKER_1>We don't need to have them be on a sippy cup.

00:20:52.915 --> 00:21:00.735

<v SPEAKER_1>And I know that breast milk is so precious and you don't want to spill it, but it's something, it's another way to utilize your breast milk and to practice these open cup skills.

00:21:00.955 --> 00:21:07.495

<v SPEAKER_1>When you say you want them latching more or pumping, does that actually mean increase the frequency of breastfeeding sessions?

00:21:07.955 --> 00:21:14.175

<v SPEAKER_2>If they feel like they're struggling with supply, I mean, you have to remove milk to make milk and you do that by either latching or either pumping.

00:21:14.195 --> 00:21:22.015

<v SPEAKER_2>So they could potentially latch more, or if they're finding that it's a bit hard with introducing the solids too, then they can always pump as well.

00:21:22.215 --> 00:21:24.755

<v SPEAKER_1>Hey, we're going to take a quick break, but I'll be right back.

00:21:30.717 --> 00:21:36.497

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00:21:36.897 --> 00:21:46.917

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00:21:47.217 --> 00:21:52.597

<v SPEAKER_4>Be kind to your mind and get these new tropic chews at olli.com, that's olly.com.

00:21:52.737 --> 00:21:55.457

<v SPEAKER_4>These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.

00:21:55.497 --> 00:21:59.057

<v SPEAKER_4>This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

00:22:03.597 --> 00:22:15.317

<v SPEAKER_1>What sort of cultural or societal factors are you seeing with the families you work with that influence the mom's decision regarding breastfeeding duration, other than introducing solids and other than the need to return to work?

00:22:15.797 --> 00:22:21.957

<v SPEAKER_2>I would say, I know that during some of our center mom support circles, we would talk about solids.

00:22:22.357 --> 00:22:43.057

<v SPEAKER_2>I would hear from some of the parents or some of the moms that they feel a little pressure to stop breastfeeding and they're getting that pressure from family because they feel like the baby's eating now, the baby looks too big to be at the breast, and it's like, we just remind them to gently educate their partners or their parents on the benefits of breastfeeding for both mom and baby.

00:22:43.457 --> 00:22:47.877

<v SPEAKER_2>Actually, for all of us, for this society, breastfeeding benefits.

00:22:48.257 --> 00:22:55.697

<v SPEAKER_2>But yeah, it's usually sometimes from family or even friends making comments about, oh, that baby's big, that baby's able to feed himself.

00:22:55.797 --> 00:22:56.997

<v SPEAKER_1>They do the same thing.

00:22:57.237 --> 00:23:00.357

<v SPEAKER_1>Oh, that baby's too big, your breast milk's not enough, needs to start solid foods early.

00:23:00.377 --> 00:23:05.297

<v SPEAKER_1>Oh, that baby's too small, needs more nutrition from, it's like everybody commenting about the size of your baby.

00:23:05.317 --> 00:23:10.857

<v SPEAKER_1>Like, I get it, just you want to hide in your own house by yourself and feed your baby without everyone else's input.

00:23:10.977 --> 00:23:15.697

<v SPEAKER_1>But I think also the idea, like the whole model of Cinemoms and support groups is like to normalize this.

00:23:15.717 --> 00:23:17.097

<v SPEAKER_1>Like, hey, yes, this is a struggle.

00:23:17.117 --> 00:23:18.437

<v SPEAKER_1>Let's talk about the things that are hard.

00:23:18.457 --> 00:23:27.557

<v SPEAKER_1>Let's talk about the benefits of continuing on and support each other so that when someone says, oh, that baby looks too big to breastfeed, like that is someone's personal opinion.

00:23:27.657 --> 00:23:30.877

<v SPEAKER_1>And first of all, we should all learn not to comment on the size of anyone else's body.

00:23:30.897 --> 00:23:34.357

<v SPEAKER_1>But it's like so socially acceptable to say things like that.

00:23:34.377 --> 00:23:35.097

<v SPEAKER_1>And it shouldn't be.

00:23:35.197 --> 00:23:36.597

<v SPEAKER_2>And it usually comes from family.

00:23:37.297 --> 00:23:46.277

<v SPEAKER_2>So they can sometimes get a little discouraged, but it's like, no, when you want to stop it, I mean, you recommended up to two years, but when you want to stop, it's truly between you and your baby.

00:23:46.297 --> 00:23:48.937

<v SPEAKER_2>Don't let other people influence your decision.

00:23:49.197 --> 00:23:53.337

<v SPEAKER_2>You're doing what's best for you and your baby, health-wise and nutrition-wise.

00:23:53.357 --> 00:23:54.377

<v SPEAKER_2>So continue on.

00:23:54.497 --> 00:23:56.977

<v SPEAKER_2>You just have to educate people because they just don't know.

00:23:57.577 --> 00:23:59.257

<v SPEAKER_1>Where else do you learn about education?

00:23:59.277 --> 00:24:02.437

<v SPEAKER_1>You might take one breastfeeding class at the hospital before you have a baby.

00:24:02.717 --> 00:24:08.677

<v SPEAKER_1>There's a lactation consultant who might come around literally 12 minutes after you gave birth to a baby and your milk hasn't even come in.

00:24:08.877 --> 00:24:22.377

<v SPEAKER_1>The wonderful thing about the WIC program and outpatient support groups is you can go back when you're actually dealing with the problems, which is when you go home and you're by yourself and it's so isolating and you're like, I think I'm doing everything right and this baby's not latching or they're not transferring.

00:24:22.677 --> 00:24:29.597

<v SPEAKER_1>That's where your Ibclc and lactation educators are so helpful because this is not something you just like figure out and then you're good, right?

00:24:29.617 --> 00:24:33.597

<v SPEAKER_1>Like there's mastitis and you have issues with supply and you might get sick or a baby gets sick.

00:24:33.617 --> 00:24:36.917

<v SPEAKER_1>It's like, it's so easy to stop and it's so hard to keep going.

00:24:37.317 --> 00:24:41.757

<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, that's why our peer counselors are awesome at what they do.

00:24:41.777 --> 00:24:55.817

<v SPEAKER_2>They educate mom prenatally throughout our pregnancy, but when baby gets there, when baby's born, you know, our contact frequency with mom is a little, it's usually like twice within the first week of life, weekly up until the baby is about a month old, and then we're still checking in with mom.

00:24:56.477 --> 00:25:00.997

<v SPEAKER_2>Once the baby is one, monthly, and then up until six months, she stays on the program.

00:25:01.117 --> 00:25:11.077

<v SPEAKER_2>So we have that enhanced, like, layer of breastfeeding support with our peer counselor program, which is, you know, usually highly recommended for any mom that's on WIC that thinks that she even wants to breastfeed.

00:25:11.497 --> 00:25:15.057

<v SPEAKER_1>Roni, how can we work towards creating a more supportive environment?

00:25:15.077 --> 00:25:16.877

<v SPEAKER_1>Like, we talk about some of the cultural limitations.

00:25:16.897 --> 00:25:21.977

<v SPEAKER_1>It's like, if you've got a mom or a mother-in-law at home telling you that baby's too big to breastfeed, like, how can we counteract that?

00:25:21.997 --> 00:25:23.497

<v SPEAKER_1>Like, you cannot get rid of your mom or your mother-in-law.

00:25:23.517 --> 00:25:29.137

<v SPEAKER_1>But, like, how can we make more supportive environments for moms who want to breastfeed beyond the introduction of solid foods?

00:25:29.337 --> 00:25:31.937

<v SPEAKER_1>Like, what's working for you guys at WIC and in cinemas?

00:25:32.217 --> 00:25:37.577

<v SPEAKER_2>I would have to say definitely we just recommend that, you know, what they're learning, they share with their family.

00:25:37.717 --> 00:25:42.097

<v SPEAKER_2>Educate your partner, educate your mom or your mother-in-law.

00:25:42.297 --> 00:25:50.037

<v SPEAKER_2>You know, you have to kind of advocate for yourself and push back against like old wives' tales when your mother-in-law is telling you, oh, you got to cover up or you're gonna, your muck's gonna dry up.

00:25:50.277 --> 00:25:54.917

<v SPEAKER_2>You know, just kind of combating like myths basically and just educating people.

00:25:54.937 --> 00:26:03.897

<v SPEAKER_2>And usually prenatally when I'm doing enrollments and I'm asking mom how she wants to feed the baby, if she says she wants to breastfeed, I always ask, okay, so who are your supporters gonna be?

00:26:04.357 --> 00:26:05.837

<v SPEAKER_2>What is your support network?

00:26:05.857 --> 00:26:07.997

<v SPEAKER_2>If you don't have one, let's put one in place right now.

00:26:08.017 --> 00:26:09.497

<v SPEAKER_2>You have a WIC, you have cinemoms.

00:26:10.377 --> 00:26:15.877

<v SPEAKER_2>Outside of cinemoms, we also have breastfeeding support groups in seven different languages here at WIC.

00:26:15.897 --> 00:26:18.557

<v SPEAKER_2>So it's like you have options and resources.

00:26:18.577 --> 00:26:28.277

<v SPEAKER_2>So we can definitely be your village to your healthcare provider, but get your family and your support system in place because those first two weeks of breastfeeding are gonna be challenging.

00:26:28.697 --> 00:26:37.077

<v SPEAKER_2>And you need your family rooting for you instead of thinking they're helping you by saying, oh, just give that baby some formula, or that baby's too big now, he's six months, and he can feed himself.

00:26:37.077 --> 00:26:38.177

<v SPEAKER_2>Why are you still breastfeeding?

00:26:38.577 --> 00:26:44.297

<v SPEAKER_2>It's just educating their partners, their parents, their in-laws.

00:26:44.397 --> 00:26:45.237

<v SPEAKER_1>I like that idea.

00:26:45.257 --> 00:26:46.637

<v SPEAKER_1>Share what you're learning with your family.

00:26:46.657 --> 00:26:47.337

<v SPEAKER_1>Parents say that all the time.

00:26:47.357 --> 00:26:49.677

<v SPEAKER_1>Like, I'm learning all this stuff about baby-led weaning from you, Katie.

00:26:49.697 --> 00:26:52.137

<v SPEAKER_1>Like, can you teach my husband, partner, mom?

00:26:52.157 --> 00:26:53.857

<v SPEAKER_1>It's like, no, you can't.

00:26:53.877 --> 00:26:54.297

<v SPEAKER_1>You do it.

00:26:54.317 --> 00:27:02.397

<v SPEAKER_1>Because you are the biggest advocate for your thing, be that breastfeeding or starting solid foods, or doing both of those, because we do multiple things at the same time.

00:27:02.417 --> 00:27:04.237

<v SPEAKER_1>We're not done breastfeeding when we start solid foods.

00:27:04.257 --> 00:27:05.957

<v SPEAKER_1>And I heard you slip that myth in there.

00:27:06.197 --> 00:27:08.317

<v SPEAKER_1>Cover up where your milk is going to dry up.

00:27:08.337 --> 00:27:10.657

<v SPEAKER_1>What are some other myths that you hear?

00:27:10.677 --> 00:27:13.717

<v SPEAKER_1>We kind of laugh, but every culture is different.

00:27:13.737 --> 00:27:15.757

<v SPEAKER_1>They all have their own made up stuff.

00:27:15.777 --> 00:27:18.457

<v SPEAKER_1>And for whatever reason, the breastfeeding, it's like, you've never done it before.

00:27:18.637 --> 00:27:24.077

<v SPEAKER_1>Here's an older sister or mom or colleague who has, and all of a sudden we believe everything they say.

00:27:24.397 --> 00:27:28.997

<v SPEAKER_1>What are some of the myths out there that you're still hearing that you're kind of working hard to counteract?

00:27:29.437 --> 00:27:29.717

<v SPEAKER_2>Right.

00:27:29.737 --> 00:27:32.857

<v SPEAKER_2>And then when, of course, when I hear them, when our peer counselors hear them, we don't laugh.

00:27:33.017 --> 00:27:33.577

<v SPEAKER_1>No, I know.

00:27:33.577 --> 00:27:35.197

<v SPEAKER_1>I'm not implying you do, but like...

00:27:35.217 --> 00:27:42.477

<v SPEAKER_2>We definitely acknowledge and respect cultural traditions, but we just gently educate on the truths about breastfeeding.

00:27:42.497 --> 00:27:46.817

<v SPEAKER_2>You know, if you cover up, if you don't cover up, that doesn't really affect supply.

00:27:46.837 --> 00:27:49.937

<v SPEAKER_2>We kind of educate on how the body makes milk.

00:27:49.957 --> 00:27:51.377

<v SPEAKER_2>You make milk by removing milk.

00:27:51.397 --> 00:27:53.697

<v SPEAKER_2>So if you cover up, that doesn't mean your milk's going to dry up.

00:27:54.037 --> 00:27:56.737

<v SPEAKER_2>So just like educating, that is one that I've heard.

00:27:56.757 --> 00:27:58.117

<v SPEAKER_2>What is another one that I've heard?

00:27:58.477 --> 00:28:00.297

<v SPEAKER_2>Just certain foods that you have to eat.

00:28:00.597 --> 00:28:03.297

<v SPEAKER_2>You have to stay in the house for 30 to 40 days.

00:28:03.337 --> 00:28:04.477

<v SPEAKER_2>You can't shower.

00:28:04.497 --> 00:28:15.357

<v SPEAKER_2>I've heard all kinds of things that are told to our participants by their mothers, by their in-laws, to kind of help with breastfeeding or just the recovery of the postpartum period.

00:28:15.757 --> 00:28:21.997

<v SPEAKER_2>Not going out for 30, 40 days, not showering, covering up, and eating certain foods, a lot of it.

00:28:22.217 --> 00:28:23.277

<v SPEAKER_1>What are the certain foods?

00:28:23.297 --> 00:28:28.877

<v SPEAKER_1>I mean, I'm sure that varies from culture to culture, but what are some foods you hear either like, you should eat more of this or you should eat less of this?

00:28:28.897 --> 00:28:40.257

<v SPEAKER_1>And again, if it doesn't affect milk supply and production as a credentialed feeding expert, like we're obligated to educate on the science behind it, but you're right, tiptoeing gently to not offend anyone's cultural preferences.

00:28:40.277 --> 00:28:43.277

<v SPEAKER_2>Exactly, exactly, cultural beliefs or preferences.

00:28:43.417 --> 00:28:56.277

<v SPEAKER_2>But yeah, like mainly the soups, there's this drink that's made with like chocolate, just oatmeal, just certain foods that certain cultures feel like will really help with breastfeeding are usually offered to moms, but to a point where they get sick of it.

00:28:57.257 --> 00:28:59.677

<v SPEAKER_2>It's like, I've had enough of the soup, the chicken soup.

00:28:59.697 --> 00:29:00.277

<v SPEAKER_2>I've had enough.

00:29:00.677 --> 00:29:19.337

<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, but just basically, you know, respecting cultural traditions, but gently educating and empowering our participants to advocate for themselves and also to educate or kind of push back a little bit when they are bombarded with sometimes the old wives' tales from families or from in-laws, yeah.

00:29:19.677 --> 00:29:22.777

<v SPEAKER_1>And eventually all breastfeeding relationships come to an end.

00:29:22.797 --> 00:29:30.197

<v SPEAKER_1>What are some gentle strategies for moms and babies to transition away from breastfeeding when they've mutually determined that the time is right?

00:29:30.717 --> 00:29:31.057

<v SPEAKER_2>Right.

00:29:31.077 --> 00:29:33.197

<v SPEAKER_2>You want to just make sure that you're comfortable.

00:29:33.217 --> 00:29:36.557

<v SPEAKER_2>You don't want to just quit cold turkey because you will become uncomfortable.

00:29:36.897 --> 00:29:41.697

<v SPEAKER_2>But just like certain tricks and tips are like, don't offer but don't refuse.

00:29:42.157 --> 00:29:46.217

<v SPEAKER_2>Don't offer the breast, but if the baby does want to breastfeed, don't refuse.

00:29:46.597 --> 00:29:59.557

<v SPEAKER_2>Cutting those nursing sessions down, like maybe the nighttime session is usually the hardest to get rid of, but just like gently like cutting down a session per day can kind of help you slow down and kind of speed up the weaning process.

00:29:59.997 --> 00:30:03.917

<v SPEAKER_2>I have coworkers that stated that they've used band-aids.

00:30:03.937 --> 00:30:09.937

<v SPEAKER_2>They put band-aids on their breasts, on their nipples, and they've told the baby, you know, it doesn't work, it's broken.

00:30:10.377 --> 00:30:11.617

<v SPEAKER_2>And for some, it's worked.

00:30:12.317 --> 00:30:13.337

<v SPEAKER_1>Hey, whatever works.

00:30:14.277 --> 00:30:16.157

<v SPEAKER_2>I had one mom, she said she put lemon.

00:30:16.177 --> 00:30:20.057

<v SPEAKER_2>I'm like, oh my gosh, she put lemons, lemon juice on her breast.

00:30:20.097 --> 00:30:22.877

<v SPEAKER_2>When the baby latched, it was like a very unpleasant taste.

00:30:23.597 --> 00:30:27.397

<v SPEAKER_2>But I usually just recommend that, you know, don't offer but don't refuse.

00:30:27.817 --> 00:30:45.037

<v SPEAKER_2>And just like basically cutting out a nursing session until you kind of wind down to those last couple, two to three, and then just from there, slowly winding down and cutting one out, doing something in place of the nursing, maybe reading a bedtime story, having a routine, things of that nature.

00:30:45.057 --> 00:30:47.957

<v SPEAKER_1>Hey, we're going to take a quick break, but I'll be right back.

00:30:52.457 --> 00:30:54.857

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<v SPEAKER_5>Well, that's why they're introducing an all new Bumble with exciting features to make compatibility easier, starting the chat better and dating safer.

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00:31:24.248 --> 00:31:31.668

<v SPEAKER_1>Roni, where can mothers find support or resources if they have questions or concerns about breastfeeding because now they've already started solid foods?

00:31:31.688 --> 00:31:39.728

<v SPEAKER_1>I think there's a lot of stuff out there for when you're just starting and trying to figure out those first few weeks are so hard, then you're kind of smooth sailing, and then you're like, ah, shoot, we gotta introduce food.

00:31:39.748 --> 00:31:40.728

<v SPEAKER_1>It's kind of messing stuff up.

00:31:40.948 --> 00:31:45.148

<v SPEAKER_1>Where's a good place to learn more if you want to continue breastfeeding beyond six months of age?

00:31:45.468 --> 00:31:56.648

<v SPEAKER_2>I would say our website, phfewig.org, we have tons of helpful information and handouts on introducing solids, introducing the cup, breastfeeding, pumping.

00:31:56.668 --> 00:31:59.628

<v SPEAKER_2>So that's definitely one resource that I could think of.

00:32:00.188 --> 00:32:11.588

<v SPEAKER_2>And if you just have questions about what does the World Health Organization think of breastfeeding, just Google the World Health Organization and put in breastfeeding and read about what knowledge they have there.

00:32:11.988 --> 00:32:17.928

<v SPEAKER_2>But in terms of information, I would say our website, whether you're on the program or not, you have access to it.

00:32:17.948 --> 00:32:20.208

<v SPEAKER_2>And we have tons of great handouts.

00:32:20.228 --> 00:32:21.288

<v SPEAKER_1>You guys have so many good resources.

00:32:21.308 --> 00:32:23.608

<v SPEAKER_1>We use them all the time for non-WIC stuff too.

00:32:23.608 --> 00:32:24.848

<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, exactly.

00:32:24.868 --> 00:32:25.188

<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah.

00:32:25.588 --> 00:32:34.488

<v SPEAKER_1>And if you're looking for a breastfeeding educator or professional and you're in that second half of infancy, are you still eligible for services?

00:32:34.748 --> 00:32:39.008

<v SPEAKER_1>I know within WIC, of course you are, but outside of WIC, are you familiar in the community?

00:32:39.448 --> 00:32:45.108

<v SPEAKER_1>Can you go and seek help if you wanna continue breastfeeding, but you're not exactly sure how to go about that because your baby started solid foods?

00:32:45.528 --> 00:32:53.788

<v SPEAKER_2>Yeah, we recently started both myself and another African-American lock-inch consultant at our agency, along with the peer counselor.

00:32:53.928 --> 00:33:05.088

<v SPEAKER_2>We have actually breastfeeding drop-in clinics every Wednesday and Thursday at our Cinemom or Obama site, which is off of Crenshaw and Stocker.

00:33:05.108 --> 00:33:07.688

<v SPEAKER_2>And we've been given the green light to help people in the community.

00:33:07.708 --> 00:33:11.108

<v SPEAKER_2>So even folks that are not on WIC are able to come and get breastfeeding help.

00:33:11.408 --> 00:33:13.708

<v SPEAKER_2>So that's definitely one place that I know about.

00:33:14.028 --> 00:33:15.948

<v SPEAKER_2>I'm trying to think free, help for free.

00:33:15.968 --> 00:33:18.128

<v SPEAKER_2>It's usually mainly through a WIC agency.

00:33:18.148 --> 00:33:18.368

<v SPEAKER_1>Yep.

00:33:18.688 --> 00:33:24.548

<v SPEAKER_1>And I think the hospitals too, I know at least in San Diego, even if it's like, you didn't have the baby there, like they don't care.

00:33:24.568 --> 00:33:26.588

<v SPEAKER_1>Do you have a baby and do you want some breastfeeding help?

00:33:26.608 --> 00:33:34.488

<v SPEAKER_1>They're usually, I mean, I don't know if they're like, that's a formal situation, but it's like, I felt like I could always drop in anywhere and they'd be like, so willing to help you.

00:33:35.708 --> 00:33:37.328

<v SPEAKER_2>And then there's Alecha League as well.

00:33:37.348 --> 00:33:39.748

<v SPEAKER_2>That's in many areas everywhere.

00:33:39.888 --> 00:33:46.368

<v SPEAKER_2>So you could always like look up Alecha League and then maybe putting your zip code to find a support group that's near you.

00:33:46.848 --> 00:33:50.428

<v SPEAKER_1>The referrals, like ask your friends, like, do you have an Ibclc that you worked with?

00:33:50.728 --> 00:33:54.368

<v SPEAKER_1>Cause there's lots of different types of educators out there.

00:33:54.748 --> 00:33:56.648

<v SPEAKER_1>Not everyone is everyone's cup of tea.

00:33:56.728 --> 00:33:58.788

<v SPEAKER_1>You gotta find the person that works for you.

00:33:58.808 --> 00:34:04.468

<v SPEAKER_1>And I love the way at WIC, you guys are always encouraging breastfeeding without, sorry, but ramming it down your throat.

00:34:04.488 --> 00:34:07.368

<v SPEAKER_1>It's like, you acknowledge the real life limitations.

00:34:07.388 --> 00:34:11.748

<v SPEAKER_1>It doesn't work for every family, but there's a lot of families that come back with second and third and fourth babies.

00:34:11.768 --> 00:34:24.208

<v SPEAKER_1>They're like, I'm gonna give it a try because that WIC, the Breastfeeding Peer Counselors and the Ibclc, they really encouraged me to keep going, even though it was hard because it is hard, but as you've shared, it's so beneficial for baby and for mom.

00:34:24.588 --> 00:34:25.848

<v SPEAKER_2>For and for mom, yes.

00:34:26.008 --> 00:34:27.988

<v SPEAKER_1>Well, thank you so much for this conversation.

00:34:28.008 --> 00:34:29.208

<v SPEAKER_1>I really appreciate it, Roni.

00:34:29.228 --> 00:34:30.528

<v SPEAKER_1>It was great getting to chat with you.

00:34:30.548 --> 00:34:31.748

<v SPEAKER_2>Thank you for having me.

00:34:32.828 --> 00:34:37.268

<v SPEAKER_1>Well, I hope you guys enjoyed that interview with Ronietra Steward about breastfeeding duration.

00:34:37.788 --> 00:34:44.028

<v SPEAKER_1>I will put all of the links in the references that she mentioned so you can check out the PHFEWIC website for some of their information.

00:34:44.048 --> 00:34:50.388

<v SPEAKER_1>If you're in person in California, in the LA area, and you want to check out Cinemomz, I'll also link to the previous episode that I did with Dr.

00:34:50.408 --> 00:34:51.348

<v SPEAKER_1>Toncé Jackson.

00:34:51.908 --> 00:34:58.808

<v SPEAKER_1>And I will also put it all in the show notes for this episode, which you can find at blwpodcast.com forward slash four three six.

00:34:59.068 --> 00:35:01.708

<v SPEAKER_1>A special thank you to our partners at Airwave Media.

00:35:01.888 --> 00:35:07.388

<v SPEAKER_1>If you guys like podcasts that feature food and science and using your brain, check out some of the shows on Airwave.

00:35:07.448 --> 00:35:10.328

<v SPEAKER_1>We are online at blwpodcast.com.

00:35:10.608 --> 00:35:12.828

<v SPEAKER_1>Thank you again for listening and I'll see you guys next time.

00:35:12.848 --> 00:35:12.868

<v SPEAKER_3>Bye.