Breastfeeding & Starting Solid Foods: When Will My Milk Supply Drop Off? with Jessica Smith, MSN, RN, IBCLC

0 (0s):

When your baby is embarking on a new phase of development, I don't know about you guys, but I love a list of what I need to get ready. Sorry, I. do not have time to hunt and pack all over the internet and figure it out for myself. Gimme, your done for you baby registry list. I want your already written feeding and nap schedule and when it comes time to start solid foods. If you're looking for a list of foods to have on hand, I have a free feeding guide called the Baby-Led Weaning Pantry Planning Guide. So this is a 10 page checklist divided by categories of foods, many of which you probably already have in your kitchen, along with tips on how to modify those foods so that you're safe for your baby, even from their first bites.

0 (41s):

So from spices and seasoning to canned foods and dry goods, this Baby-Led Weaning Pantry planner has it all. If you're trying to get more organized about expanding the range of foods that your baby tries, you can download the Baby-Led Weaning Pantry Planner for free by going to my website at babyledweaning.co/resources. Again, that free feeding guide, the Baby-Led Weaning Pantry Planner is available for you at babyledweaning.co/resources and see which staple foods that are already in your house that your baby could be eating next. Have you ever tried to crack your own coconut? I remember the first time I tried to make coconut for my baby twins, I had no clue what I was doing.

0 (1m 24s):

It involved a coconut, a screwdriver, a hammer. There were safety goggles. Since that time, I've learned a lot about making foods safe for babies. And spoiler alert, there are way easier ways to get your baby to safely try coconut. This week I'm actually making coconut as one of the five new foods that I'm making for my friend's baby Ezra. So I'm cooking all of his a 100 First Foods and we're on week 10, meaning we're almost halfway there. He is gonna be trying foods number 46 to 50 this week. He's just past eight months of age now and the five new foods we're trying this week, our coconut for the new fruit of the week. Green beans are his new vegetable. The whole grain starchy food we're doing is bulgar one of my favorite plant proteins, kidney beans. I'm making this amazing kidney bean pie. It's this new plant protein.

0 (2m 4s):

And then we're also gonna be doing ricotta coated cheese as another way to introduce the potentially allergenic food, cow's milk protein. So if you are just getting started with solid foods, if you're interested in learning more about how to make foods safe for Baby-Led Weaning without having to wear safety goggles, the best place to get started is on my free online video workshop. It's called Baby-Led Weaning for Beginners. I just redid this whole training. There are so many good visuals of how to prep foods safely and ideas what to feed for the first few weeks of Baby-Led Weaning, plus a whole section on making allergenic foods like the ricotta. We're gonna make our own ricotta. You can definitely buy your own too, but it's super easy to make and to make it safely for your baby to eat.

0 (2m 46s):

Everybody on this free workshop gets a copy of my original 100 First Foods list so you'll never run out of ideas that your baby can eat. You can sign up for this workshop if you go to workshop.babyledweaning.co. You can register and take it right now or you can take it later today or like if your baby's taking a nap or sleeping and you can also do it tomorrow. Really, whatever works for your schedule. If you've got a little bit of time to learn about Baby-Led Weaning, I'd love to see you on this free workshop. Again, that signup is at workshop babyledweaning.co and happy feeding.

1 (3m 21s):

Sometimes we're our worst critics as moms and statements like that, like your milk isn't good enough, or I've heard like you're starving your baby, or there's not enough fat content and your milk really just destroys her confidence and can really sabotage a mom's experience. And we know that stress can affect your milk supply. It doesn't allow you to relax and allow those hormones to just do their part and relax and allow that milk to flow very easily.

0 (3m 47s):

Hey there, I'm Katie Ferraro, Registered dietician, college nutrition professor and mom of seven specializing in Baby-Led Weaning here on the Baby-Led Weaning with Katie Ferraro Podcast. I help you strip out all of the noise and nonsense about feeding, giving you the confidence and knowledge you need to give your baby a safe start to solid foods using Baby-Led Weaning. How often should you breastfeed once your baby starts solid foods. And what happens if your milk supply starts to drop off once that baby starts eating? I remember one of our virtual assistants calling me on the phone the night before her baby started solid food and she was distraught because she thought it was going to be her last breastfeeding session with her baby.

0 (4m 30s):

And of course it wasn't because you can continue breastfeeding or bottle feeding after you start solid foods. You have to because that infant milk, that's still your baby's primary source of nutrition for a lot of weeks to come. But in that moment, my heart was just breaking for this mom because I saw how confusing this intersection of breastfeeding and starting solid foods has become. There are so many mixed messages and so much erroneous advice about extending breastfeeding into the second half of infancy and even the second year of life. Yes, almost all major health bodies recommend exclusive breastfeeding for the first six months of life, but we're not doing a very good job educating moms about the benefits of extending breastfeeding beyond that. So my guest today is on a mission to help moms continue breastfeeding into the second half of infancy and beyond.

0 (5m 14s):

Her name is Jessica Smith. She's a Registered nurse with a master's degree in nursing and she has her IBCLC certificate, that's the International Board Certified Lactation consultant and she works in private practice for Blue Ridge Lactation in Virginia. So I met Jessica last year. We did an Instagram live together about a donor milk drive that she was working on with Lara Vu. So Lara Vu is the founder of Mila's Keeper, which is a breast milk storage container system that keeps pumped milk cold and safe for up to 24 hours. And Lara was on our podcast back in episode 404 if you want go back and learn more about storing pumped Breast milk Safely. But she also introduced me to Jessica and IBCLC, who I'm interviewing today. And we were chatting about, you know, some of the biggest challenges that faced Breastfeeding Moms when they start solid foods.

0 (5m 56s):

And this whole idea of you know, wanting to protect your milk supply and then how do you deal with the, the fact that your milk supply is starting to drop off. So I wanted to have Jessica on the podcast to explain a little bit about that topic and to talk about when your milk supply will drop off as your baby becomes more proficient in self-feeding solid food. We're gonna talk a little bit about schedules too, especially around the eight month mark when it comes to dropping that milk feed. We're both kind of on the same page, although we have slightly different views about which milk feed to drop first. So be sure to listen to the end to catch that. And I want to preface this conversation saying that infant milk be that breast milk or formula should be the sole source of nutrition from zero to six months of age. And it gradually becomes a lesser important component of your baby's diet from six to 12 months of age as they get better at learning to get nutrition from food.

0 (6m 42s):

So during that weaning period, which is 6 to 12 months, your baby is gradually going to be learning how to get more nutrition from food and less from infant Milk, such that by 12 months of age most of your baby's nutrition can be coming from food with just a bit of it from milk. So Jessica's gonna talk about extending that breastfeeding beyond 12 months if you wanna do that. And then answering some other common questions about breastfeeding alongside starting solid foods. So if you're currently navigating this whole like messy middle where your baby like still isn't getting much nutrition from food yet and relying on infant milk, be sure to hit subscribe and follow this podcast so that both new episodes that I release every week will show up in your feed. I do a mini Baby-Led Weaning training episode every Monday and a longer feeding expert interview each Thursday. So please do subscribe and if you have a mom friend who's also starting solid foods, please also tell her about this podcast Baby-Led Weaning with Katie Ferraro too as your word of mouth recommendations are so important to the growth and success of this show.

0 (7m 35s):

So with no further ado, I wanna bring on Jessica Smith who will be teaching about breastfeeding and starting solid foods and chatting a bit about what to do when your milk supply starts to drop off.

1 (7m 50s):

One mom, she, she felt a lot of pressure because she breastfed her little one for three years. So she felt a lot of the pressures of, you know, people telling her you really need to stop, you need to feed your baby solids at six months and babies should be weaning before, you know by one year. There was a lot of that, you know, I have a lot of clients who are feeding their babies past a year mark, and I think there's just not enough information out there about how to do that and that it is okay to do that for the many benefits for for mom and baby.

0 (8m 17s):

And I love that it's so much work at the beginning, but then once you get into it it's like, I don't wanna quit. So Jessica, can you tell us a little bit about the type of work that you do as an IBCLC and as a nurse? What made you want to get into breastfeeding support and then what sort of clients do you see and what challenges are they facing?

1 (8m 34s):

I started out as a mother baby nurse. I worked at our local hospital for about 15 years and during that time I had my son and I was clueless about breastfeeding. We, we didn't have lactation consultants in the hospital and the education that we had, you know, I felt like I was good and didn't really need to do any classes or anything specific. So we ended up struggling and we had everything from poor milk supply, poor latch, poor ducts, mastitis, thrush, all, all of it, you name it, we had it. And so once our hospital became baby friendly certified, that brought in lactation consultants and as I was working, I saw what the lactation consultants did with these moms and how they just, you know, took them under their wing and shared how to latch a baby and shared the benefits of breastmilk and feeding.

1 (9m 21s):

And then I realized that's what I wanna do. I love that. I love to nurture them in that such a vulnerable time when there's so much fear because I saw myself in those patients and I said, you know, I want to pay it forward. I wanna do what I didn't. I, I didn't have that education, I didn't have that knowledge and I wanna help if I can help remove a little bit of their fear, I wanna do that. And so I got my mentor, I asked her what I needed to do and I left bedside nursing and went on to become certified as an IBCLC in 2013. So that is kind of how I got into that. And then I did that bedside nursing for a Lactation consultant for 10 years and then I decided to open my private practice.

1 (10m 3s):

So I opened that just Shy of two years ago, which has been just amazing and wonderful. I miss my coworkers at the hospital but I've learned so much from them. And then I've just gone on to kind of spread my wings and do private practice where I felt like I could just be more hands-on and spend the time that I really wanted to, which I felt like I couldn't do obviously in the hospital. 'cause you have so many patients to see

0 (10m 24s):

And I think it's so wonderful that you were able to translate the knowledge and experience that you had from your bedside nursing and hospital years and kind of bring that into the home, which is really where the struggles start. Like your breastfeeding struggles don't start in the hospital, they literally kick you out before it gets bad. So I wanted to ask you, 'cause the first half of infancy, zero to six months, breast milk is sufficient to meet most babies nutrition needs. And we know that there are absolutely no benefits to starting solid foods early, but parents get pressure from lots of places like their doctor or other family members and you gotta start solid foods early. So sometimes we hear that in the form of statements, things like, oh that baby is hungry, or your breast milk isn't enough. And I was wondering, Jessica if you could shed some light on why statements like that are damaging and harmful to breastfeeding success if they're foisted on moms of babies who are not yet six months of age and also are not showing their reliable signs of readiness to eat.

1 (11m 13s):

Right. Well it's really harmful, especially during such a vulnerable stage in a mom's, you know, in that fourth trimester when there's so many physiological emotional changes and you already feel like you're not doing enough for your baby. I think sometimes we're our worst critics as moms and statements like that. Like your milk isn't good enough or I've heard like you're starving your baby or there's not enough fat content in your milk, really just destroys her confidence and can really sabotage a mom's experience. And we know that stress can affect your milk supply. It doesn't allow you to relax and allow those hormones to just do their part and relax and allow that milk to flow very easily. So it's really de is detrimental. And then we come from, you know, a formula fed generation.

1 (11m 56s):

So in the fifties when more women went into the workforce, there was more formula fed babies. And not to say there's nothing wrong with formula feeding at all. Just saying that for moms who chose to breastfeed, there seems to be a lack of support because we're coming in from a generation where our parents, my mom formula fed all three of us girls. And so there's just that lack of knowledge. You know, these grandparents are are, you know, trying to support their children and encourage them. But then when they see babies acting hungry or in their opinion is acting hungry and maybe not getting enough, they're just saying, well you are fine. You, you know, you formula the fed and everything's good, which is perfectly fine. But for a mom who's trying to breastfeed that can really sabotage her and help her lose her confidence.

1 (12m 40s):

So definitely is is a big issue. And I think just educating, taking, I encourage them to take prenatal breastfeeding classes and so they can learn what to expect and empower them.

0 (12m 47s):

And I think we also come out of an era where we're focusing so much on getting through the birth that like we forget that all the stuff that happens after that is actually the really hard part. Like the birth is hard, but then it's the raising the baby and all the other feeding stuff. And you mentioned the comments that people say like, oh you were formula fed and you turned out fine. We hear that a lot in the Baby-Led Weaning space. Oh you know, parents saying, my mom tells me like, "Oh I spoon-ed you and you turned out fine", so there are some, certainly some similarities there in surrounding yourself with people who are like-minded and positive and certainly educated in that space. 'cause you know, God bless your mom but just because she fed you one time as a baby doesn't necessarily make her an expert. So..

1 (13m 26s):

Right. And it, it really just, and you're hearing it especially from your other moms and you know, peer to peer and then your family

0 (13m 32s):

It. And then if you're on social media, it's a million times worse. Ugh.

1 (13m 35s):

It's so stressful. I really feel like if I didn't have, if there was social media as evident as it was 14 years ago, I probably, and the support of my husband and my family, I would've quit. But when moms are taking those prenatal classes and I used to teach 'em at the hospital and they hear that their milk is a living fluid. It has stem cells, antibacterial properties, anti-fungal, fungal properties, all the essential vitamins and minerals, they feel empowered, they're, they get excited. Like the surveys after classes, they're like, I didn't realize there was so many good components to breast milk. I knew it was good for baby and it decreases their risk of infection but I had no idea. And it empowers them. You can see a difference and they get excited when they hear that. So then when they hear on the other end, your milk is not enough, it sends a mixed signal and they just are left confused.

1 (14m 20s):

And what do I do and how do I do this?

0 (14m 30s):

Hey, we're gonna take a quick break but I'll be right back. And one thing that we really run into, and this is particularly problematic in the pediatrician population is there still are to this day, a lot of pediatricians at the four-month appointment telling parents to get ready to start solid foods, namely purees and white rice cereal at four months of age and every major health body, the World Health Organization. Mother's Day is coming up quick. And I know since I became a mom, my own mother and my mother-in-law have been instrumental. I mean total lifesavers in helping me and my husband keep our heads above water with all the new things that accompany parenthood. But I always struggle like what do you get them to adequately thank the grandmothers for all their help and support with the kids. So one thing that I'm decent at that they're not so hot at is taking pictures.

0 (15m 10s):

Like my phone photo roll is literally bursting at the seams with pictures of all of our kids. And an easy way to share these memories with your loved one is by giving them a Skylight frame. So the Skylight Frame is a touchscreen photo frame that your whole family can upload photos to and they appear in seconds. So you can share your favorite moments with the people that matter the most to you. Like the grandmas, the Skylight Frame so simple to use. The setup really took me like just a couple of minutes. And what I love is that even the least tech savvy people can benefit from the skylight frame. It looks like a real photo frame adds a beautiful touch to your home. And the Skylight Frame comes in two sizes. So they have an original 10 inch one or the newer 15 inch gallery frame.

0 (15m 51s):

That's the one that I just got from my mother-in-law. It's beautiful, it's so easy to use. You can send photos to the frame in just seconds via email or I actually set up both of our phones and my mom's too, like all of them together with the Skylight Frame app. And you can just send pictures that then magically appear on their frames every time you add them to the app. So as a special limited time offer for our listeners, you can get 15% off your purchase of a Skylight Frame when you go to skylightframe.com/baby. That's skylightframe.com/baby. Mother's day is coming right up. So order today to get 15% off your purchase at skylightframe.com/baby.

0 (16m 33s):

It's so easy and you'll be so glad you set them up with a skylight frame. American Academy Pediatrics, they recommend exclusive breastfeeding for the first six months of life. So as a breastfeeding advocate, I maintain that when doctors tell parents to start solid foods at four months of age, that is an anti-breastfeeding message. And if we could start framing it like that and not being ashamed to say that, like yes of course starting solid foods when your baby is ready differs for all babies, but your baby is not sitting up on their own at four and five months of age and they don't need anything except Infant milk until six months of age. So stop confusing them and intimating that there's something wrong with your breast milk or there's, if breast milk is sufficient to meet the needs for the first six months of life, then why are you telling me to start solid foods at four months again, I maintain it's an anti-breastfeeding message.

0 (17m 18s):

Would you agree?

1 (17m 18s):

Right, absolutely. And it just sabotages their, their confidence when pediatricians start recommending rice cereals and so forth at that four month appointment, it really sabotages 'em. And not only babies are not developmentally ready, they don't have the enzymes prepared to digest, you know, those spice cereals and solids at that age. It fills 'em up. They're not gonna wanna feed as often. And so that compromises mom's milk supply wants her milk supply is compromised and she's not getting that stimulation, that supply and demand. you know, it just creates a domino effect.

0 (17m 48s):

Okay. Let's talk a little bit about how breastfeeding schedules change after you start solid foods. I generally tell parents that really for the first eight weeks or so after you start solid foods, which is at or around or beyond the six month mark, you really don't have to change your baby's nap or your Infant milk feeding schedule because your baby's really eating so little solid food and your baby needs a lot of time to learn how to eat. And breast milk is still so important. So are the moms that you work with Jessica, do you think that they're getting this message or do they still stress about oh my gosh I need to drop a milk feed or I need my baby to be hungry like a baby I was working with the other day, the mom's a dietician, she's like, oh he is hungry. I brought him over hungry to start solid foods on day one and I was like, dude, food's not gonna do anything for them. They don't know how to use food to make hunger go away.

0 (18m 29s):

Most of their nutrition is still coming from Infant milk. So are they stressing about this idea to like, oh my gosh, I need to drop Milk feeds right outta the gate when they start solid foods?

1 (18m 37s):

Yeah, they really do. And they don't know how to do it. So I think it causes so much confusion and in the end what I'm seeing is moms delaying the start of solid introduction in the two years that I've been in private practice and delaying it after six months 'cause they're stressed and they're not sure how to do it and what the approach is. So yeah, the schedule seems to be really stressful for them and just the whole approach of not knowing how to do it.

0 (19m 0s):

And moms love a schedule and they've worked really hard to get their baby on that nap schedule and that breastfeeding or bottle schedule. And then when you start solid foods, so like, ugh, I have to mess everything up. But you really don't, you continue your same nap and milk schedule, you just gotta find a time to do solid foods one to two times a day at the six and seven month mark acknowledging that they're not really going to eat that much. But practice makes progress.

1 (19m 22s):

Right? Because it, it is really just exposing them to the different textures, different flavors does allergens like you share on your podcast all the time. And just helping developmentally too, you know, to grab their foods and use those pinch or grass as they get older, you know, eight to nine months. So it really does help in so many ways. But yeah, they feel really overwhelmed in that pressure to start those solids. And then with that then it's the whole sleep training and getting babies sleep through the night, which is glorious and that sounds off wonderful, but it can certainly compromise mom's milk supply, which is a big deal because we still have six more months, you know?

0 (19m 57s):

Yep.

1 (19m 58s):

The Academy of Pediatrics and World Health recommends to continue breast milk feeds for 12 months. And so when you start doing those things and then moms supply drops, then there's that battle of how do I keep my supply up and how do I introduce solids and do I do purees or do I do Baby-Led Weaning and they're worried about the choking. And so there's just so many, you know, fears.

0 (20m 17s):

And, I wanted ask you about this idea of milk supply, because I feel like that mom today are conditioned anyways to talk about "protecting their milk supply", and then they'll do anything and everything to increase milk production, especially in those crucial and really frustrating early days of breastfeeding. But once your baby starts getting proficient at self-feeding solid foods, it's only natural to expect that your human milk supply is going to dip. Right? That is what weaning is. That's weaning in action. How do you counsel moms, Jessica who are concerned about declining milk supply after the baby starts solid foods? And then what advice do you provide to them?

1 (20m 52s):

Well that's the beauty of natural weaning process. Like you said, that's weaning in action. As moms have less stimulation, the body's gonna make less milk. It's, it's really a supply and demand. So the more the breasts are stimulated, the hormones are stimulated through maybe latching on, on breastfeeding or through pumping the more milk is made. So as there's a decrease in that, there's a decrease in those hormones, oxytocin and prolactin, which are going to decrease milk supply. There's also a protein in the breasts that's called fill or a feedback inhibitor of lactation. And so when the breasts stay fuller because Babies are not eating as often, then their milk supply will naturally start dropping. And so it really is that balance of..

0 (21m 31s):

But do you tell them like that's normal. That's okay. 'cause they freak out like why am I making less milk? Like the baby's getting bigger at eight and nine and 10 months of age. Shouldn't I be making more and more milk? And you have to like literally graph it out and show them no, as your baby gets better at eating, the weaning process is about gradually getting more nutrition from food and less nutrition from milk. And so how do they react to that message like this is normal?

1 (21m 54s):

Oh I think they feel a sense of relief and understanding. Like once they understand that that's normal, then there's not that stress that your body's gonna make what it needs to feed your baby according to the demands. And as long as baby's gaining weight, as long as they're on the growth chart, you know the way they're supposed to be and and growing adequately and as long as they have their appropriate wet and dirty diapers and moms supply feels good and she's not having any issues with plugged ducts, then that's wonderful and that's exactly what she needs to do. But yeah, there is so much concern about how to do that, when to do it. So I just encourage them to continue feeding on demand, trying to offer breast feeds before the solids early on in this first six to eight months.

1 (22m 35s):

Yeah, six to eight months. And then often the solids after just offering them nutrient rich foods and trying to avoid overfeeding them. 'cause I had one client when I asked, she said she realized she was overfeeding her baby. So she was still giving her baby like six breastfeeds and was doing the three solids a day and baby was just chunking up and this baby just really likes solids and took off. So baby was taking like three full solid meals plus still nursing six times a day. And she realized, don don't know what I'm doing and this seems too much. And maybe it's a lot of work really, really big and. It's a lot of work

0 (23m 7s):

And sometimes it is nice, it's a relief to hear like, oh my gosh, I don't have to do it that much. And we generally recommend the same thing that in phase one of Baby-Led weaning, the first eight-ish weeks, when your baby starts solid foods, don't mess with your nap in your milk schedule, find a way to make the solid foods fit in there. But around the eight month mark, when everything kind of clicks for your baby and they start getting better at feeding themselves, that's when you're gonna want to drop that first milk feed. So we do have a podcast episode all about How to Drop, a Milk Feed. And I'll link to that in the description where you're watching this. And we also have another episode about how to move milk behind meals because that's something that's important to start doing around the eight month mark too. But we're deprioritizing infant milk. Nobody's denigrating infant milk. Nobody's saying there's anything wrong with it, but it is no longer sufficient to meet your baby's needs once they start eating more food.

0 (23m 49s):

And I think that sometimes is the message where like dietician and breastfeeding people, sometimes the kind of butt heads, it's like the breastfeeding support people like breast milk is the best. Like yes it is the best, but we have to acknowledge that by 12 months of age most of babies nutrition can be coming from food. And I wanted to ask you about this idea of the moms who want to breastfeed beyond the one year mark. 'cause I think like as a healthcare provider, the AAP World Health Organization, they're doing a good job like recommending exclusive breastfeeding until six months of age. Not that anyone's listening, but after the six month mark it gets kind of hazy, right? Like moms don't know how much they should nurse versus offering solid foods and they worry that they're, they're doing breastfeeding and they're doing it wrong. And then they're like, wait, do I have to stop at 12 months of age? So what's the advice you give to parents after the 12 month mark?

1 (24m 32s):

I encourage them of the benefits. The benefits are still there. So they're still getting all those immunological properties, they're still getting all the many of the nutritional properties. There was a study out, I can't remember the publisher, but they kind of talked about the benefits after 12 months of age, between 12 and 23 months of age. And it said that in 15 ounces of breast milk, it provides 29% energy. The energy requirements that being toddler needs 43% of their protein requirements, 36 of their calcium, 75% of their vitamin E, 76 of their folate, 94% of their B12 and 60% of their C requirements, which I thought was really impressive.

1 (25m 14s):

So not only are there still so many nutritional benefits, there's also the hormone benefits, there's also the enzymes, all the antibacterial properties, all the great components of breast milk that are beneficial to little ones. And especially as they start going into like daycares and being exposed to lots of germs, they still are getting all the great antibodies are gonna protect their toddler from a lot of the infections that are going around.

0 (25m 34s):

And I love the story that you told at the outset of the interview about the mom who is breastfeeding her baby to the three year mark. I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Nepal for about two and a half years after college and it was not uncommon to see two and 3-year-old toddlers being breastfed. And I also teach college nutrition and like you tell a US college student about two and three year olds breastfeeding, and they look at you like you're literally crazy. So for families who are formula feeding, they're gonna wanna transition to whole cows milk at 12 months, which we kind of covered that extensively on this podcast. But for the breastfeeding moms, the ones that wanna go past the one year mark, you've shared some of the benefits like from a physiological standpoint, but how do you counsel and advise them when like I feel like all other signs in our society point to like just stop at one. If you made it to 12 months, you've made it like twice as far as most people even ever make it.

1 (26m 19s):

Yeah. So not only do I encourage 'em about the like nutritional benefits, but I just go over the signs to be looking for when babies are ready to wean. And if you're not seeing those signs then just keep going and they're not feeding, you know, six, eight times a day. So a lot of, you know, at this age it's you know, in the morning or at night or in the morning midday and at night. And so the stressors aren't there. Like it was on a demanding schedule for a mom who's introducing solids and feeding six times a day. So I just kind of go over the signs that baby's ready to wean. And so, so when they are familiar with that, it empowers them to like, okay, so baby's still not showing me those signs or my toddler's not showing me those signs. I think we can keep going. And it's really that balance of what mom and and their little one are ready to do.

1 (27m 4s):

So oftentimes babies will just seem disinterested or fussier at the breast or they're having shorter feeds or just really, really distracted feeding or they're playing with the breast or playing with the nipple or just start biting down. A lot of babies just will nurse for comfort, which is also very beneficial and there's a scary situation or they're frightened or they're ill. So they're still getting those benefits during that time too. So just encourage 'em. And then I talk to 'em about how to drop milk feeds and just dropping them slowly, dropping them slowly will help protect them from having any plugged ducts. And developing mastitis will also help naturally drop their hormone levels slowly, which can help their mental state as well.

0 (27m 50s):

Hey, we're gonna take a quick break, but I'll be right back. You are about to participate in the most ambitious culinary experiment ever imagined. This competition is going to test everything, adapt quickly to anything. I mean anything the wildest day of your life starts right now, All new 24 and 24 last chef standing Sunday night at eight on food network stream on max. Now when you talk about dropping a milk feed slowly, is there, obviously everyone's schedule is different, but do you prefer one milk feed over the other? Like do you say generally, hey drop that morning feed and start the day just with a solid food meal.

0 (28m 33s):

Or is it kind of a unique situation for each family and what works for one family might not work for the other?

1 (28m 38s):

Yeah, I think a lot of people do tend to drop the morning feed or the middle of the day, especially if they have other children and they're gonna be out and about during, especially as they drop those naps, sometimes that middle of the day feeding tends to be a little bit easier. So it just depends on everybody's schedule. But usually the morning feed or the middle of the feed, middle of the day feed tends to be the easiest one for them to drop.

0 (29m 2s):

And you mentioned some of the signs of baby being ready to wean, especially in the toddler years, obviously less interest. So there'd be maybe less frequency of nursing. But what are some of the other signs that parents should look for to determine whether or not their toddler is really ready to wean off of the breast?

1 (29m 16s):

A lot of times you'll just see babies just show disinterest. They like during, when they would normally feed their toddler at, you know, the middle of the day they just kind of decide they wanna go read a book and they wanna go do something else. So that's that gentle weaning, which is really beneficial also for mom 'cause it's a hard thing to wean your babies especially, or you're toddler, especially when you go to that point after a year old. I went to two years and it was really hard and I, I had tears.

0 (29m 41s):

Oh, there's such an emotional component too. I kinda have goosebumps. I have like some trauma even thinking about even to this day, like I traveled a lot, I had a singleton that I had a set of quadruplets and my quadruplets were too, we had a set of twins, but by then I was working a lot in infant feeding and Baby-Led Weaning and we traveled a lot with the twins and I had to pump everywhere. And to this day when I go to an airport, I like as a default look for an outlet because I had an extension cord in my pump bag that I would plug into the, you know, buy the sink and then run it underneath into the stall and like sit on a bathroom stall and pump. Like now I think about it, it was before like all of those, you know, like the pump friendly bathrooms and, and again if you travel in small airports, like they don't have those amenities. And so I like still look for the outlet 'cause I'm like secretly like, oh my gosh, do I need to pump?

0 (30m 23s):

So, and my youngest just turned six. So like I don don don't know when that's gonna go away. But for our audience Jessica who want to seek help from an IBCLC, where should they go to learn more about getting Lactation Education?

1 (30m 38s):

I always encourage to go to a resource that's evidence-based. So you know, there's lots out there. kellymom.com is a great resource. Lactation, Education Resource, that's a really good one. Eyeball, which is the Institute of Advancement of breastfeeding education is really great support too. So those are good ones. And then always like to point them to like medications and good sites for knowing how to know when a medication is safe. Always tell 'em to check with a provider. But infant risk has a Mommy Meds app, which is really good. And then trash the pumpanddump.com is really good. So I like to refer them to those websites.

0 (31m 11s):

Thank you so much for sharing all of this with us. It was a wonderful conversation. I appreciate it. And where can our listeners go if they wanna learn more about you and your work? I know you're in the Virginia area, but you're looking to do more online work. How can listeners get connected with you, Jessica?

1 (31m 28s):

So I'm contracted with the lactation network so they can go through the lactation network or specifically through my website, which has a link that is linked to me through the lactation network, which is contracted with a lot of insurances. So for many moms, either virtually or in person, it's a hundred percent covered. So they can go to blueridgelactation.wixsite.com/IBCLC and that would bring them to my site.

0 (31m 51s):

And I'll put that in the description as well. Jessica, thank you so much for the conversation. I really appreciated it.

1 (31m 58s):

Oh sure, you're welcome. It was great to chat with you.

0 (32m 1s):

Well, I hope you guys enjoyed that interview with Jessica Smith about breastfeeding and starting solid foods and how to handle when your milk supply drops off. I will put all of the resources that Jessica mentioned in the Shownotes for this episode, which you can find at BLWpodcast.com/424. After the interview, we were talking a little bit about some of these meds and supplements. She said that the med that I was probably getting from Tijuana was domperidone. And that's definitely it. 'cause I remember it sounding like Dom Perignon. And at first I was like, dude, what are these doctors talking about? But she said she doesn't wanna talk about off-label use of medications and I totally get that. So we'll talk about supplements and I'll have Jessica back on again. The Shownotes page for this episode is BLW podcast.com/424. A special thank you to our partners at AirWave Media.

0 (32m 41s):

If you like podcasts that feature food and science and using your brain, check out some of the other shows from AirWave Media. Thank you so much for listening. We're online at BLW podcast.com. I'll see you next time. Bye now.