Interviewing my Mom: How She Didn’t Like BLW at First & Why She Changed

Katie Ferraro (0s):

Okay. I know a lot of the podcast listeners are not on Instagram or TikTok in more power to you, but probably the most frequent DM I get on social media is about my EZPZ code. If you're just getting started with baby-led weaning or you're about to start solid foods, EZPZ makes the original silicone suction mats and bowls as well as open cups and BLW spoons. I use them every day in my own house with our seven kids, but I also use them as a dietitian in my infant Feeding practice, my affiliate discount code for EZPZ is "KATIE10" And I recommend their first foods set. If, you just wanna buy one thing to get your baby started. All of the EZPZ products are developed by an infant Feeding expert. And again, that code "KATIE10" works at EZPZfun.com. Happy Feeding and let's get into this episode

Mary Clark (1m 20s):

I've really enjoyed watching your kids with the BABYLED weeding because it is funny how many textures they can handle. The first time you gave somebody cooked broccoli, And I was like, you're going to let that baby eat cooked broccoli and they're shoving it in their mouth. but it, I was pretty impressed. Hey

Katie Ferraro (1m 35s):

There I'm Katie Ferraro, registered dietitian, college nutrition professor and mom of seven specializing in baby-led weaning here on the baby-led weaning made. Easy podcast I help you strip out all of the noise and nonsense about feeding, leaving you with the confidence and knowledge you need to give your baby a safe start to solid foods using baby-led weaning. Well hey guys, welcome back. I was talking with my friend's sister over the weekend. My friend had put me in touch with her sister because her sister's baby nephew was just starting solid foods at six months of age and the mom really wants to do baby-led weaning, but they're worried because their mom, the grandma doesn't like baby-led weaning And I was sharing that my own mom actively dislikes baby-led weaning or disliked it back in the day when we were doing baby-led weaning with all of our babies.

Katie Ferraro (2m 27s):

I have seven kids, my sister has six kids and my mom is also a dietitian And it reminded me of an episode that we did for Mother's Day two years ago where I actually interviewed my mom about what her beef with baby-led weaning is. And to be honest, she actually did end up changing her tune. So I wanna share this episode again for you in case you are struggling to get your mom or mother-in-law or anyone else important in your family or your friends circle structure group, whatever your tribe is, if they're not on board with baby-led weaning, I hope maybe you'll take some inspiration from this episode where I interview my mom about what's her deal, why she didn't originally like baby-led weaning. Well mom, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.

Katie Ferraro (3m 8s):

I appreciate it.

Mary Clark (3m 9s):

Well it's nice of you to invite me.

Katie Ferraro (3m 10s):

I know finally it took a hundred some odd episodes but we're saving the best. It's for Mother's Day. So you've been my mom for 42 years and back in 1978 when I was born, what was it like when you were feeding your oldest baby solid food for the first time? Like take us back there.

Mary Clark (3m 27s):

So you're right, you're my first baby. I was scared but I was also very excited cause people told me that once you start feeding your baby solid food, the baby would sleep better during the night. And to me that was a big plus. I actually can't remember whether that worked or not, but yes, we were very traditional back then. I bought my first box of Gerber Baby Rice cereal, which was little flakes. We put a little bit of warm water in And it mixed it up And, it looked like wallpaper paste and that was what we were supposed to feed your baby first. So you put it in her mouth and she immediately sticks her tongue out and pushes it out because it's all brand new. But after a while she gets it.

Mary Clark (4m 7s):

Then you, you move on to oatmeal and then to little jars of carrots and peas. The worst thing about it, I remember it being very expensive cause at that point I breastfed the babies till they were six months old. But from six to 12 months I was buying diapers formula and baby food. And I would cry at the grocery store. But that's how I started.

Katie Ferraro (4m 29s):

Okay, so then you went on to have five more kids. Obviously I'm the oldest and a lot of parents will say like as they progress with having more kids, they kind of get less vigilant or freaked out or scared about feeding. Like can you remember if your approach to feeding your baby changed over the years, moving from one to six, like with Frankie, your youngest, like did you just like let 'em eat, whatever? What changed?

Mary Clark (4m 52s):

Yeah I, I think it probably changed first of all when by the time you have your sixth kid, and by the way, I had my children one at a time, like normal people. I wasn't blessed with any multiples like some of my daughters. So I had a little bit more time to feed them, mind you. So I think that by the time the sixth one came around, he would be sitting in the highchair and the other kids would just walk by and probably drop food on the highchair table. And I really didn't care whether he ate it or not and he probably picked up food off the floor maybe and ate it. So it got a little bit messier. And I think you're right. It wasn't nearly as strict. I didn't spoon feed everything after a while.

Katie Ferraro (5m 30s):

Okay, so you're a dietitian, which is why I became a dietittian. And you work with older folks in long-term care in nursing homes. So my mom has a business where she's a consultant dietitian in long-term care. And I used to work with you a little bit before I got into infant feeding. And now that I've been doing this for so long, I really remember how many similarities there are between the opposite ends of the lifespan when it comes to feeding. So could you share maybe how feeding babies is actually kind of like feeding old people?

Mary Clark (5m 56s):

No, it really is from the old people standpoint though, when it comes to Feeding, it's all about dignity. You know, the last thing you wanna do is spoon feed. You wanna make them as as independent as possible, which is what you're doing with your babies as well. It's not so much a dignity issue, it's just a learning issue at that point. But with the older folks, it's the same kind of thing. They need to have their motor skills to be able to get the spoon to their mouth without making a mess. A lot of older folks don't like wearing a bib or any kind of a clothing covering. I know a lot of babies rip their bibs off as soon as you put them on. The older folks really do try not to be messy. And I, don't think babies try not to be messy.

Mary Clark (6m 39s):

But yes, there is a lot of similarities. You have to watch how they swallow that they're sitting up straight, all the same things that you do with the baby.

Katie Ferraro (6m 45s):

I always think about it when the like the teeth thing comes into play. Like I remember walking into a residence room and their dentures would be in the glass on their bedside table and they don't have teeth and yet they can still eat a variety of different textures and parents worry about that. Babies don't need teeth to start solid foods. They can actually eat pretty well. Like their gums are pretty strong.

Mary Clark (7m 6s):

Oh no, that's amazing. I have seen people gum steaks, porkchops, it's amazing. And some, actually some people who have dentures, if they don't fit then they're painful so it's a lot easier for them to take it out. But yes, absolutely you can gum food pretty well.

Katie Ferraro (7m 22s):

I think another similarity between the opposite ends of the lifespan too is that babies as well as older folks can get most of the nutrients they need from foods and they don't need supplements. Like obviously there are cases where you know, you would have a diagnosed nutrient deficiency, but in so much of just like the lay media you hear like, oh you need to have this supplement and that supplement because you're older because you're a baby. But we're both pretty much big advocates for a food first approach to getting nutrition. Even it's old people or young people, right? Yeah.

Mary Clark (7m 50s):

Oh absolutely. So actually in a facility in a nursing home, the older folks are actually at an advantage because the meals are served to them. So they're served a well-balanced meal. Older folks who are at home who decided they're tired of cooking, they just grab anything that they can find and so, and sure it's probably easier than making themselves a sandwich or cooking something for their meal. So yeah, actually food is, we always go food first. Absolutely.

Katie Ferraro (8m 18s):

And I think supplements like Ensure or Boost like they are supplements, they can be part of the diet but just like purees go like you cannot live on purees alone. That's a one texture for babies to master. Like a liquid supplement is just a part of the diet. We need to have a variety of foods and textures at, you know, all aspects of the lifespan, including babies. So there are a lot of similarities there between old people and between babies for sure.

Mary Clark (8m 42s):

I've really enjoyed watching your kids with the baby-led weeding because it's funny how many textures they can handle. The first time you gave somebody a bunch of broccoli, cooked broccoli, remember on the blanket out in the backyard, And I was like, you're going to let that baby eat cook broccoli and they're shoving it in their mouth and gagging but it, I was pretty impressed.

Katie Ferraro (9m 2s):

Hey, we're gonna take a quick break but I'll be right back.

Katie Ferraro (10m 12s):

I remember you actually. So I was doing baby-led weaning with the quadruplets. And I remember you being like, I mean this is fine and it's cute but you were kind of scoffing at it a little bit like, you know, they eventually need to learn how to eat with spoons and and they do what they feed themselves. I guess now that you've seen baby-led weaning in action with so many of your own grandkids, what do you think about it as far as like a philosophy goes compared to traditional spoon feeding. And you can be honest.

Mary Clark (10m 36s):

No, I think first the one thing I didn't like about it was it was so messy. I just thought that spoon feeding was less messy. But then after a while you realize that it's so much more fun for the baby to have a lot more different food. I would think it's exciting all the different textures in their mouth, the and the funny look on their face when they put something different in their mouth it has a different texture. I love that.

Katie Ferraro (10m 56s):

And you mentioned the cost earlier, like it is actually more affordable if you're just making modified versions of the same foods your family eats.

Mary Clark (11m 3s):

Yeah, no I could see that.

Katie Ferraro (11m 4s):

Like there's no baby food in your house. It's like whatever's in mom's refrigerator. I love when one of my nieces or nephews is there like I'll find something that she's already made that they can eat. It's so much easier than having to get baby food.

Mary Clark (11m 15s):

I do believe that. I think it is. Well it might not be easier because to open a jar is pretty easy. Correct. But again, there was such a little variety And I mean and the baby food companies, you know now they then they started making chicken and noodles or you know, beef and rice that had a little tiny bit of texture in it.

Katie Ferraro (11m 32s):

Well remember when they had baby food desserts? Like I distinctly remember going to Ralph's and being like there was like, like there was such a thing as baby food dessert you guys like that's insane.

Mary Clark (11m 41s):

I know, I know. I wonder how much baby food they actually sell now.

Katie Ferraro (11m 45s):

Well it's all pouches, right? Because there's this notion, first of all, some parents are paying between three and $4 for one pouch and they offer three of those a day. So do the math on that. That's $12 a day times 30 days in a month. And by the way, three pouches a day is not nutritionally adequate for babies. You're spending north of $350 for something you absolutely don't need. You could just be putting that money towards making real food that everyone else in your family could eat. So I would argue that especially with the direction of pouches, because of the perception of the convenience that the prices have gone up, the cost has gone up. It's even more affordable to do BABYLED Weaning today.

Mary Clark (12m 20s):

Well when we were Feeding our baby's puree food If, you wanted to be very organic. You could take your own vegetables and puree them and put them in a little cupcake tin and freeze them And. it goes on and on.

Katie Ferraro (12m 30s):

I remember you had a banana masher, like who needs a, who can't just use the back of a fork to mash a banana. Like you had a thing with the rotary thing on the top. Remember to grind up a banana into puree.

Mary Clark (12m 42s):

It was probably a gift.

Katie Ferraro (12m 44s):

Okay, you have 20 grandkids. I was just adding it up because exactly half have done baby-led weaning. So that's my quadruplets and my twins, Kelly's twins and then Frankie and Cece's two youngest kids. So that's 10. What's your take on the grandkids who did baby-led weaning, not like comparing them to the other ones who didn't. But for those last 10, do you think compared to maybe your friends that have grandkids and as far as picky eating goes, like was it beneficial for them to do baby-led weaning from your aspect as the grandmother?

Mary Clark (13m 10s):

Well I would say that all the kids that you mentioned just now are really not picky eaters. They pretty much give it a shot, you know, try everything. I don't know. Did the first, did the first 10, were they spoon fed or was it kind of half and half?

Katie Ferraro (13m 23s):

I mean I definitely remember Kelly like having a race to get through a thing of purees as quickly as she could cuz she was all about efficiency. So I would say they were traditionally spoonfed and I know like when other kids come to our house again you just kind of sometimes notice that certain kids are certainly more picky and there's some degree of picky eating that sets in in second year of life. But I just think a lot of people listening are worried because their mother or their mother-in-law is like, this is the pain in the neck, this isn't worth it. I spoon fed all of you kids and you turned out fine. Like what would you say to those moms who haven't had the experience of their mom or their mother-in-law having done this and seen it work? Like what advice could you give to them?

Mary Clark (14m 2s):

I would say it's definitely, it makes more sense. It really does make more sense. Especially like listening to some of your podcasts that I have in the past. It really does make more sense. Like why did we go backwards and start pureing everything for babies when they really didn't have to? I'm sure back in the day way, way back, they probably just gave them regular food.

Katie Ferraro (14m 19s):

It doesn't make sense. Like we talk so much about being a responsive feeder for breastfeeding and bottle feeding and then all of a sudden like at six months we just take away the baby's autonomy to feed themselves and then expect them to be independent eaters when they're toddlers. Like it's kind of this weird six month period where in traditional spoon feeding you literally like go backwards. So I like that baby-led weaning keeps you in that independent feeding mode. Like let kids do what they were, you know, designed to do essentially.

Mary Clark (14m 43s):

Well the other thing is as far as picky eaters, you know when you introduce foods to babies, they're excited about it. But I think when they get to be 18 months or two years is when they start to get a little bit pickier, don't you think?

Katie Ferraro (14m 55s):

Absolutely. And the, the more foods they've seen early on in that flavor window where they'll like and accept a lot of foods, the more likely they are to continue those. Cuz those 10 grandkids, they've all tried a hundred different foods by the the time they turn one and If, you compare that to traditional spoon feeding, traditional spoon feeding babies have only had 10 or 15 foods. If, you lose those 10 or 15 foods to picky eating, you are totally up a creek that becomes like such a hard child to feed, but a kid that has a hundred foods under their belt, when you take 10 or 15 away, it really doesn't make that big of a deal. There's still something in your fridge that I can find to feed that baby.

Mary Clark (15m 26s):

No, I think it's, I yeah, you're right. If I was having babies now I would do the baby-led weaning cause I do believe that it's easier and it's better.

Katie Ferraro (15m 33s):

And you didn't always think that though because I remember you kind of like again just you know like that's Katie whatever, do whatever you want. But I had struggled so much with spoon feeding, Molly and, I always tell the story. But I remember one time when she was a baby and starting solids, you and Kelly invited me to go like to a park or the zoo or something. And. it was around lunchtime and Kelly has six kids and well she didn't have six at the time, but she like knew everything about babies and you knew everything about babies. And I remember lying to you guys and saying I couldn't go, not because I didn't want to, but because I didn't want you guys to see me struggling feeding Molly because like what sort of mom can't feed her own baby? And then like what sort of dietitian Mom can't feed her. Like I remember it being a real pain point for me. And I felt like such a failure cause I couldn't get Molly to eat. But now I know I was starting way too early.

Katie Ferraro (16m 14s):

I was basically force Feeding her. She wasn't ready. It was like everything I now know and learned from doing baby-led weaning later with the quadruplets and the twins like, oh they can do this by themselves. I just need to kind of set them up for success.

Mary Clark (16m 27s):

And didn't some of the quadruples do better at certain times? Like some started earlier.

Katie Ferraro (16m 32s):

Oh yeah, like Henry waited six extra weeks from everyone else. I started when they were six months adjusted. So it was six months plus six weeks. And even then Henry took another six weeks. He was literally like nine months chronological age before he put his head up and started eating. And I know you help me with dinner sometimes and Henry is still always the last kid done. So it kinda makes sense.

Mary Clark (16m 51s):

But still you're right, you have to wait till the baby's ready. But I do think one of the funny things about spoon feeding is you'll put something in their mouth and then they like it. They like it. Then you put something else, and without changing their facial expression, they just stick that tongue out and push it out. They don't make a face, they can't talk, they can't say, I don't like this, but it's really funny.

Katie Ferraro (17m 9s):

Hey, We're gonna take a quick break, but I'll be right back But they are to some degree telling you they don't like it when they're absolutely rejecting your feeding attempts.

Mary Clark (18m 12s):

Remember if you keep it between, it doesn't work.

Katie Ferraro (18m 15s):

I know and I remember telling, a lot of parents will ask me like what do I do because my mom or my mother-in-law doesn't support this. And they'll say that line, you know, you were spoon fed in you guys turned out fine. And I always tell the story of like, I remember kind of catching you like you were like begrudgingly helping me with the babies, with the quadruplets being like, I don't get what you're doing, but like whatever you do you, I'll help you put the sweet potatoes out. And then I caught you on the phone like in my old house. Remember in that like the front room when you walked in and you were talking to Helen, your other friend who's a dietitian and you're like, oh my gosh, and then Claire was eating beets and then Claire was eating sardines. Like, can you believe it? And I remember like you eventually got to a point where you were like bragging about your grandkids eating and you, you guys, she is not one to brag about her grandkids.

Katie Ferraro (18m 55s):

Like you're gonna have to earn a compliment from her. But I remember thinking like that was so cool that we turned a corner from you like scoffing at it to being like, okay, this is pretty efficient and this is actually pretty cool that babies can do this.

Mary Clark (19m 5s):

Oh yeah. And the but the variety was what was amazing.

Katie Ferraro (19m 8s):

What's the weirdest baby food that we've fed one of the grandkids in your opinion?

Mary Clark (19m 13s):

Well I'm sure everyone says sardines, but really red beets. Although I actually like the puree red beets. Usually the babies like them because they're sweet. Let see, the weirdest thing I think when I really freaked out was when you gave them broccoli that very first time, like big stocks of broccoli and they're doing so muchwith their hands.

Katie Ferraro (19m 29s):

And there's not much eating going on early on. I think that's the thing you learn like the more kids you have, like they're fine. They're getting their nutrition from breast milk or formula. You're just giving them the chance to learn how to eat.

Mary Clark (19m 40s):

Yeah, I do. No, you sold me.

Katie Ferraro (19m 42s):

Okay. It was really brief. And I have to tell you guys a funny story because my mom and my dad, I go to their house every Monday for dinner. They're very gracious. Invite me over with all of my seven kids. A lot of times my husband's traveling, but sometimes after a glass or two of wine, my dad will make fun of my podcast voice. And I've mentioned it before and you said that you've listened to a few episodes, but I know you're lying. I know it's only when like another podcast you're listening to ends and it accidentally starts my podcast. Do you end up listening? Is that true?

Mary Clark (20m 10s):

No, I actually on purpose tuned into two or three on purpose.

Katie Ferraro (20m 13s):

Oh it's cool mom. There's been like 130, but I'm glad you've got two or three of them.

Mary Clark (20m 18s):

I don't have any babies.

Katie Ferraro (20m 19s):

She does tell her dietetic interns and all the nurses that she works with about baby-led weaning, which is cool.

Mary Clark (20m 24s):

Yes, I do.

Katie Ferraro (20m 24s):

Well thanks so much for doing this, mom. I really appreciate it. And please keep inviting me over for dinner every Monday night. I love you.

Mary Clark (20m 32s):

Okay honey. Bye-bye. Oh, you wanna do your fake imitation of Katie's podcast voice?

Papa John (20m 35s):

No, I don't know how to do it.

Katie Ferraro (20m 37s):

Dad. Dad your "Hi, this is Katie."

Papa John (20m 41s):

No, can you hear me? Yeah. So you're talking about when you speak funny on your podcast and it's so obvious sometimes that it is absolutely not you.

Katie Ferraro (20m 54s):

That's not how I really talk.

Mary Clark (20m 56s):

No, you're just very animated. That's a good way to put it.

Katie Ferraro (20m 59s):

I'm very animated in real life. I just yell a lot more when I'm not on my podcast. That's what my kids say. So your podcast voice is the voice where you don't yell. So that's nice that they noticed.

Papa John (21m 9s):

When she interviewed that. Go back and listen to your interview of the of the, the queen of all that stuff.

Mary Clark (21m 15s):

The one who started it.

Katie Ferraro (21m 16s):

Oh, Gill Rapley, the two-part interview episodes 100 and 102.

Papa John (21m 19s):

That's the one I listened to.

Mary Clark (21m 21s):

No, at the beginning. You first.

Katie Ferraro (21m 23s):

That's the best one.

Papa John (21m 24s):

Yeah. Yeah. Well.

Katie Ferraro (21m 26s):

And you still didn't like it.

Papa John (21m 27s):

I'm sorry. Not that I don't like it, just that wasn't you.

Katie Ferraro (21m 30s):

Gosh. Dad, someday I'd have to come on your podcast and tell everyone the truth about who I really am.

Papa John (21m 37s):

You should have seen me this morning it took me five minutes.

Mary Clark (21m 37s):

You should have seen it him. It took an hour for this guy to set everything up. And I made sure I wasn't here.

Katie Ferraro (21m 44s):

Awesome. All right mom and dad, I'll see you guys soon.

Mary Clark (21m 49s):

Okay, bye-bye.

Katie Ferraro (21m 50s):

Well I hope you guys enjoyed that episode with my mom and then my dad who joined up at the end. My dad cannot stand if he's not the center of attention, so he's like, I wanna be on the podcast. But my mom is Granny. My dad is Papa John and there's nowhere where you can go to find their resources online because they're not on the internet. They literally don't even know what Instagram is, which I love. And even getting my mom to do an interview was kind of a technological nightmare. But thanks for sticking around. It's just a little insight into my life. Happy, Mother's Day, to all of you out there, you guys are doing a great job. Even If you own mom tells you you were spoon fed and you're just fine. You are just fine. Happy Mother's Day and thanks for listening.