Katie Ferraro (1m 17s):

Hey, there I'm Katie Ferraro, registered dietitian, college nutrition professor and mom of seven specializing in baby-led weaning here on the Baby-Led Weaning Made Easy podcast. I help you strip out all of the noise and nonsense about feeding, feeding you with the competence and knowledge. You need to give your baby a safe start to solid foods using baby led weaning. Do we have any baby led weaning grandparents in the house or parents of babies who are doing baby led weaning who have grandparents helping you with your baby lucky? And maybe you're trying to introduce them to the idea of baby led weaning yourself.

Katie Ferraro (1m 57s):

Well, in today's episode, I want to introduce you to two different grandmas, grandma Terry and grandma Peggy, who are doing baby led weaning right now with their grand babies. My hope is that by listening to their stories, you'll glean some ideas or inspiration for how you can get some generational buy-in from the grandparents in your family. If they're not quite yet on board with this idea of baby led weaning. I know when I was just starting to figure out baby led weaning and kind of fumbling through new foods with my own quadruplet babies. And this was after we struggled a ton to spoonfeed our oldest baby. My mom, who's also a dietitian. She would come over to help me. And she would always kind of like roll her eyes when we were doing baby led weaning, and she thought it was too messy.

Katie Ferraro (2m 42s):

And she told me about feeding her own six kids. Well, I spoonfed all of you guys and you turned out, okay. So I know what it feels like. Not to have a lot of support from grandparents at the beginning, but I'll tell you a few weeks in when the babies really got into self-feeding, it really all started clicking for them. I, my mom on the phone bragging to her friend about one of the quadruplets, my girl, they be Claire. She said, oh, you should see Claire. She's eating sardines and she's eating beets and she's feeding herself. It's amazing. And I think you guys will see with both of today's grandmother interviews that both grandma Terry and grandma Peggy agree that seeing really is believing.

Katie Ferraro (3m 23s):

And so I would encourage you with regards to getting the grandparents and your house on board is before you even go there, make sure that you as the primary caregiver, that you are comfortable with a few foods that you know, your baby can safely eat. Okay? Get a couple of foods underneath your belt before you invite the grandparents into the feeding environment. But once you have those few calmly party trick foods, like the ones everyone's like, oh, a baby eating sardines. That's amazing. Okay. Once you have a few of them, it doesn't have to be sardines, but you get the point like any food that you know, your baby is comfortable with. When the grandparents see the baby eating it, they see the baby doing it safely. They see the baby's not going to choke.

Katie Ferraro (4m 3s):

And then they realize babies, gosh, they can eat so many more foods than we give them credit for your BLW skeptic grandparents are going to become converts. And soon they're going to be the ones bragging about your self feeding baby. So I wanted to say thank you both to Terriy Jahnke and Peggy McGrath for taking the time to share their stories here. The way I actually met both of these grandmas is a kind of a stalker, anytime grandma tells me she's had a baby led weaning. I'm like, can I please talk to you? Because so many parents are like, oh, I wish I had that. So I want to like get the secret sauce from them. And I met both of them. They actually separately took my free online workshop called baby led weaning for beginners. And that workshop is a great place to start. If you're just yourself, learning about baby led weaning, or if you're on board with it, but now you want to help get your caregiver or your baby's grandparents familiarized with this alternative approach to traditional spoonfeeding.

Katie Ferraro (4m 52s):

So again, the free online workshop it's called baby led weaning for beginners is one hour long. K both of these grandmas. They said they took a lot of notes, which they mentioned that they're referencing as they're going through the foods with their grand babies. But I also give everyone on that free workshop, a copy of my 101st foods list. You can sign up for this week's workshop times at babyledweaning.co. Again, that's babyledweaning.co sign up for this week's free workshop. Grab your copy of the a hundred first foods list so that you or grandma or whoever's helping you with your baby is never going to have to wonder or worry about which BLW foods to feed next. So let's get started first with the interview with grandma Terry. Terry helps watch Hannah. So she's really involved in all of the new foods from the a hundred first foods list that baby Hannah is eating here's Terry

Terry Jahnke (5m 40s):

It's nice to be here.

Katie Ferraro (5m 41s):

All right. I have been dying to kind of pick your brain ever since you emailed me about your granddaughter, Hannah, who you help watch and you're doing baby led weaning with, but before we get into that, I was curious, could you take us back to when you were a new mom, how did you introduce solid foods to Hannah's mom? Or I don't know if you have multiple children.

Terry Jahnke (6m 2s):

My youngest is 41, so it's hard to remember, but I do know I use baby food, you know, and I'm pretty sure, you know, you went from the purees to the chunky, the junior ones and you know, I don't remember, you know, at what point we actually had the table food. I just don't remember that.

Katie Ferraro (6m 20s):

Do you have multiple children?

Terry Jahnke (6m 22s):

I have two.

Katie Ferraro (6m 23s):

Did you feel like with the second one that you are maybe less? I don't want to call you up tight, but a lot of parents will say, you know, I was just so much, so much more relaxed with the second one because the first one just starts reaching for food and you realize, I my maybe overthinking it. Yeah. Okay. So when we first connected, you told me you're in my self feeding baby course, you had all these great questions and I was just blown away because you're a grandmother fully committed to baby led weaning. And I'm curious, were you always on board with this idea of baby led weaning for your granddaughter Hannah? Because I don't know a lot of grandparents who are, but I want to hear your story.

Terry Jahnke (6m 56s):

So we started feeding her purees, which I made, cause I I'm really hesitant about store-bought baby food. You're always hearing about recalls. So I, you know, I made her a lot of vegetable purees and stuff and you know, and then my daughter somehow heard about the baby led bringing, I don't know if she was somebody that was doing it. So when she turned six months, we started doing it and you know, I mean she wanted to do it. I didn't see any reason why not? You know, I just, I wasn't reluctant to do it at all. I actually think it was a lot of fun. I just would love to go. I go through the supermarket and look and say, okay, what, what can I get the, she hasn't had, I mean, I've actually been introduced to a few things, myself,

Katie Ferraro (7m 31s):

What's a food that you ate as a result of baby led weaning because of Hannah?

Terry Jahnke (7m 39s):

I had the squash

Katie Ferraro (7m 39s):

The chayote squash

Terry Jahnke (7m 39s):

Yeah. So I'd never had that before. I don't know if there, if there was anything else,

Katie Ferraro (7m 43s):

Some of the whole grains are a little out there. Parents are like, I didn't know what this one was. It's like, I know, but there's lots of other ways to get babies carbohydrates besides pasta, rice and potatoes. Right. Okay. If you're in the grocery store and you're reading labels, like what are you looking for for a food that you're going to serve to Hannah?

Terry Jahnke (7m 57s):

Well, for the most part we've been giving, you're just fresh stuff. You know what I mean? So there hasn't been a lot of labels I'm starting to now, like I was at trader Joe's yesterday and I saw something that looked interesting. So I just check the labels. I'm looking for something that doesn't have salt and sugar and you know, a lot of chemicals in it.

Katie Ferraro (8m 15s):

Yeah. And it's, I'm not saying it's hard, it's a little bit of work upfront. But once you find that one brand of whatever it is that you're looking for, canned X, Y, or Z, you can just go back to it. And then, you know, you don't have to do that level of work every time you take Hannah to the grocery store with you.

Terry Jahnke (8m 30s):

No, I dont

Katie Ferraro (8m 31s):

You go by yourself. Okay. I know you watch Hannah during the week. So you feed her during the day and her parents feed her dinner at night. And you mentioned that you're involved in food prep. And so you're making food and that you freeze extras for Hannah's parents to use. Which first, I just wanted to praise you for a minute because this is an amazing gift that you are giving your whole family. But do you have any food prep tips for baby led weaning that you've learned along the way with prepping food and freezing it for Hannah that works well or doesn't work well that you could share?

Terry Jahnke (8m 60s):

I mean, they hit, they sell all these gadgets. Like at first my daughter bought this contraption and you know, it was like a hundred and something dollars. I said, she had to take it back to the store. All you need is a steamer or a microwave and you know, a blender or a, I used by my Cuisinart food processor. Well, that was when I was making the purees. Now I just usually steam stuff and you know, I freeze it or if I make little meatloaves I like your recipe, the meatloaf with the mushrooms in it, make it like a little, you make 24 at a time and the little tins, the muffin little mini and just freeze them. You know?

Katie Ferraro (9m 35s):

I think they're great. I know. Cause nobody feels like cooking from scratch every single day. And then it's so nice. I assume your daughter works. So she's, doesn't have a ton of time to do the food prep either. Right?

Terry Jahnke (9m 47s):

Right. And now she's to the point where, you know, she can eat some of the stuff that we eat too. We don't have to maybe, you know, if they're having something she can eat, they just pass her a piece of pizza.

Katie Ferraro (9m 56s):

You said she's 11 months now. Is that correct? Yes. That's amazing. Any plans for her first birthday?

Terry Jahnke (10m 2s):

Well, they're going to have a party, but my, I don't think my daughters made plans yet. We're having company coming in from out of town, guests in the family. Cause all the cousins and things have already had their kids. You know, like I said, my daughter was, well, she was 35 when she got married, but she had trouble getting pregnant. So she was 41, when she had Hannah,

Katie Ferraro (10m 19s):

That's amazing. Is your daughter been enjoying the baby led weaning experience to

Terry Jahnke (10m 24s):

Yes. Yeah. I just love to watch her eat.

Katie Ferraro (10m 26s):

How about dad? What's his opinion about baby led weaning.

Terry Jahnke (10m 29s):

Easy going. He goes along with anything.

Katie Ferraro (10m 32s):

That's a good type of person to marry. Okay. When you go out and about with Hannah, any remarks, do other people see her eating like at a restaurant or if you're at the park, maybe friends, who've never seen an infant feed themselves.

Terry Jahnke (10m 44s):

Yeah. Like Kathy had her at a party over the weekend and she basically ate the same food that the people at the party were eating and you know, she, she fed herself. They were very impressed.

Katie Ferraro (10m 53s):

I know it is. It's nice how it kind of just molds into regular life. I've been at parties where parents make such a big deal about what the baby's eating and I'm like, it's like a full on production, but it doesn't need to be there's. I could find you 10 things at this party right now that that seven month old could eat. And I think a lot of times we sometimes put too much stress on buying special, fancy stuff to make something that you could simply just eat the regular version of. You mentioned the baby food cooker and I get approached by those companies all the time. And like, it's completely unnecessary. If you have a pan and you have water in a lid, you could do the same thing. Then you can with this expensive contraption. So I know there's lots of parents listening are probably wondering like, man, how do I get some grandma Terry vibes in my life?

Katie Ferraro (11m 35s):

Because not every family is lucky enough to have a grandparent who's on board with the idea of baby led weaning. So do you have any tips for parents who are talking to their parents or their in-laws that they might be resistant to this idea of baby led weaning?

Terry Jahnke (11m 48s):

I don't know really. I mean, I figure it's my daughter's child, whatever she wants to do, it's up to her

Katie Ferraro (11m 54s):

Think people wish that a lot more parents would say that, you know, what they usually say is I spoonfed you and you turned out okay. And of course that's true. But I do think if you look at the historically before the advent of commercial baby food, which has only been around since the beginning of the 20th century, you know, parents always just fed babies, modified versions of the same foods they ate. Like this isn't really that fancy. It's a generations old approach to starting solid foods is kind of how I like to think about it.

Terry Jahnke (12m 23s):

I wish I had done it with my kids, especially my son. He was very, very picky. I mean, I don't know when he first started eating solid foods, but I suspect it was probably late because he would only eat, you know, he didn't like the texture or to chew anything that was chewy, I mean, it was like the only way I could get vegetables in, in him is I would make them scrambled eggs so that I put baby food in it or, you know, cause he wouldn't eat anything. And I'm sure if I had done the baby led weaning, he probably would have, I couldn't believe the stuff that Hannah ate that I thought, oh, she's not going to like this.

Katie Ferraro (12m 54s):

Okay. Tell me a food that you thought she wouldn't like that she ended up loving.

Terry Jahnke (12m 58s):

I made pureed spinach with nothing in it. I mean, it did not taste good. I tasted it. She has not rejected one food. She eats everything, she eats. I mean, she has her favorites, but she eats everything.

Katie Ferraro (13m 9s):

Okay. What's the last baby led weaning food that you gave her that wasn't a puree that you were like, there's no way she's going to eat this. And she did it. The one that I always get lots of comments on is sardines because a lot of adults turn their noses up at sardines, but babies love them.

Terry Jahnke (13m 23s):

Yeah. We didn't, haven't given her sardines. We've given her different kinds of fish again, you know, we'd like fish, we eat a lot, but you know, when you make it for her, it's pretty plain. Yeah. Not all that tasty. She's eating salmon. She's eating Cod. She's had shrimp, which I browned up and put, made like a shrimp patty she's eaten just about everything.

Katie Ferraro (13m 42s):

Terry, was there any food that you tried that she didn't like?

Terry Jahnke (13m 46s):

The only thing she made a face at it was when we first, the first time we fed her and it was cereal, you know, it was a new thing to her and she didn't want any part of it, but no, I mean she ate everything. She ate everything. And the funniest thing was the first time she had pineapple, my daughter recorded it. She sent me this recording of Hannah eating a piece of pineapple and then making this funny face. But the funny thing was, she went back for the second piece and every time she made that funny face and that noise, but she just kept eating it.

Katie Ferraro (14m 20s):

That's amazing. So since you've been watching Hannah, you've known her, her whole life, all 11 months of it. What do you notice is different about an 11 month old baby and the way she eats versus let's say like at seven months when she'd only been doing this for a month or so with real food?

Terry Jahnke (14m 36s):

Well, she's much more competent and I feel much more comfortable because I don't, I'm not afraid she's going to choke on something. I mean, she just goes at it with both hands and stuffs it into her mouth and she was just fine. Fine. I couldn't believe some of it's hard to believe that somebody will, she's only just getting her first tooth. It's hard to believe that somebody with no teeth could eat the way that she does. She has no trouble whatsoever. She doesn't choke, she doesn't gag, I mean, she did gag at the beginning a little bit, but she doesn't any much anymore.

Katie Ferraro (15m 1s):

How did you handle it when she would gag at the beginning?

Terry Jahnke (15m 4s):

Of course I, you know, I get I'm ready to do the Heimlich maneuver, but then she would, she'd be, you know, and I had listened to your podcast, so I knew she was okay, but it is scary. It is scary.

Katie Ferraro (15m 13s):

Yeah. But you notice she gags less frequently now, is that correct?

Terry Jahnke (15m 16s):

Yes. And she didn't gag a lot, you know, it was only occasionally. And the one thing, it was a little more frightening at the beginning because you give them the big pieces when they're little and you know, as a grandmother, you're thinking, geez, if she shoves that whole thing into her mouth, you know, she's going to choke on it, you know? But now most from she's got a really good pincer grip. So the most part we break things up and she just eats them, you know, piece by piece. Like, I'll give her like a five, these little mini bagels. I'll give her like half a bagel and she'll eat it. But when it gets down to the end and it's really gummy, they'll take it from her and I'll break it into pieces. Cause they actually would shove into her mouth and I'd be afraid that you would choke on it.

Katie Ferraro (15m 49s):

Yeah. And it is amazing. You mentioned how much more confident they get, but you also see a much stronger. They're getting stronger at sitting up stronger at moving the foods stronger. Will they kind of start the older babies 10 and 11 months. They really start doing stuff to get your attention like dropping the food on the floor. And there's so much interaction.

Terry Jahnke (16m 5s):

Well, want some things would just throw it right back at you.

Katie Ferraro (16m 10s):

Well, this is great. Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I'm so excited to hear. I know so many parents wish they had a grandmother or mother who was on board with it, but we try to share all sorts of different stories because there are grandparents like you that are like, yeah, this is fine. I'm totally okay with it. And a lot of parents are scared to ask the grandparents to do this. And I love to hear your story. That it's something that worked out for you guys.

Terry Jahnke (16m 31s):

I mean, if anything, it's easier, you know, it's easier. You don't have to pay up all this special food and it's kind of like breastfeeding. You don't need to be making formula butter and buying formula all the time. It's just right there.

Katie Ferraro (16m 43s):

Would you say about the cost of it? Do you think it's more cost effective than doing traditional? Spoon-feeding

Terry Jahnke (16m 49s):

I'm sure it probably is.

Katie Ferraro (16m 50s):

Yeah. Well, I actually have a whole list of, like you mentioned, trader Joe's have a baby led weaning foods that I like from trader Joe's. I'm going to send you that article and we'll have a show notes page for this episode. So I'll put it up there. Cause sometimes foods you don't realize, oh yeah, I guess the baby could eat that. And there'll be two brands that look similar, but one's a better choice for babies because of the salt and the sugar, et cetera. So,

Terry Jahnke (17m 10s):

Well, lots of times when I'm cooking food for us, if I make broccoli, then I always take a little aside and keep it for her. If I make us various, you know, whatever we're having, we just, in some cases you're not even, it's not even a lot of extra work it's, you've already made it.

Katie Ferraro (17m 23s):

When you said you were looking at her list there, do you have my hundred first foods list? Is that what you guys are working off of?

Terry Jahnke (17m 31s):

And actually she surpassed a hundred foods and about, I would say about nine and a half, 10 months, they weren't necessarily all the foods on your list, but there were foods that were on your list, you know?

Katie Ferraro (17m 40s):

That's awesome. So she's gone over a hundred and you guys are still trying new foods.

Terry Jahnke (17m 44s):

So I stopped counting, but, but yeah, she's over a hundred and looking at your, she has had every fruit on your list except lime, just haven't gotten around to getting any and as for the part of the vegetable goes, I think she's had them all.

Katie Ferraro (17m 59s):

That's awesome. Did you do beets Grandma Terry?

Terry Jahnke (18m 2s):

Oh yeah, we did beats. That was one of the early ones

Katie Ferraro (18m 4s):

That's a little messy. I not a big fan of them. I don't do a lot of food's naked, but I'm not going to get a bunch of clothes stained with beats. So

Terry Jahnke (18m 11s):

We still have to do some of the grains that are not your normal millet, cumude, what we've done, you know, polenta, potato, quinoa, rice. First time I gave her quinoa, fed it to her. I put something in it, you know, to be able to flavor, what a mess.

Katie Ferraro (18m 27s):

We Load the spoon and shed take a half of it, would go over her ear. Now, when I give her quinoa, well I put it into something, I'll make like a quinoa burger or You learned your lesson. It's really tough. One to that. And rice, I go back and forth with which I hate cleaning up more from the floor.

Terry Jahnke (18m 40s):

Yeah. I think we have to give her a few more beans and we'd given her. She's had pretty much all the she's had beef, chicken lamb.

Katie Ferraro (18m 48s):

And now that she has her pincer grasp down, you can do all those canned beans. Just smash them with your thumb to make them flat. But for people listening, if you haven't done, I like kidney beans. For example, if you have done tomato or egg, what I like to do is kind of make the inside of a kidney bean pie, just some onions, some kidney beans, tomato paste, mix it all up, put it in the blender to liquefy it with some tomatoes or canned tomatoes and then throw like two or three eggs in there. And it makes almost like this little souffle you can put in the muffin, tins, it cooks up and then the baby can pick it up and eat it themselves. Because of course they can't pick those kidney beans up early on. But you know, once you get egged down, I feel like you can kind of mix it with any of the grains or the other proteins to kind of help make it into something they can, that sticks together and they can pick up any,

Terry Jahnke (19m 30s):

I actually made chili with kidney beans and I didn't put any salt or anything in it that you couldn't have. And then, you know, I took some out for her and then I salted ours. We fed into it with a spoon.

Katie Ferraro (19m 40s):

That's great. I have a question about the mess. Does the mess stress you out? Any tips for minimizing the mess?

Terry Jahnke (19m 48s):

Well, the bibs that have the little pocket help and I was actually thinking of making something that would go over the, around her so that you know what stuff that falls through a lot of stuff falls through on the sides. And then there's of course, when she decides to throw things overboard, you know, I mean, it makes a mess, but it's not that big a deal.

Katie Ferraro (20m 6s):

I love your attitude. We need more of that in the world.

Terry Jahnke (20m 8s):

I have to laugh because her grandmother has, she has another grandmother who does live out of town. And when she was visiting her, she was watching her eat and she was getting very upset because she wants to do everything herself. And basically initially we let her, I mean, if she wanted to eat the yogurt with her hands, let everything yogurt now to minimize the mess by feeding her yogurt. I love the spoon, but if she won't take, you know, sometimes you'd like, she's very independent. She wants to smell. And sometimes you want you to feed it to her, but really what you want you to do is give her the bowl so she could get her hands in it and just scoop it up with her hands. She did that yesterday. I made, she had a little upset tummy the day before she had thrown up. We don't even think it wasn't something she ate. She thinks it was, she just was so upset. You know, she's having trouble sleeping at night.

Terry Jahnke (20m 50s):

You can't, he thinks it's separation anxiety. So he said, let me just give her something light. So I made her, I still had some baby cereal and I put some of that powdered peanut butter and I chopped up strawberries and she just wanted to eat that with her hands. And she, I mean, she had it in her hair. She rubbed it all over her face.

Katie Ferraro (21m 9s):

I think you're laughing about it because she is having like double sensory experience of learning how to eat and she's enjoying doing it. And it's not a chore for you.

Terry Jahnke (21m 17s):

I'll take pictures of her eating and I sent it to my daughter.

Katie Ferraro (21m 21s):

Well, thank you so much for sharing your experience with us. You're really inspiring. And I know there's a lot of other parents out there that are like, all right, I'm working towards getting some grandma Terry in my life with my grandparents' situation too.

Terry Jahnke (21m 33s):

Okay. Thank you

Katie Ferraro (21m 33s):

Thank you, grandma Terry. I think it's amazing that you not only help watch maybe here, but you're totally on board with baby led weaning and then she followed up and sent me all these amazing videos and pictures. I'm going to link to them on the show notes page for this episode. BLW podcast.com forward slash 237. So next up is grandma Peggy McGrath. I also met her on my baby led weaning for beginners workshop. She followed up with a ton of questions. She had like really specific questions like, okay, what about agave syrup? Is that technically a sweetener that babies can or can't have? So I was like, wow, this grandma's really into it. So I answered all her questions. And then also it was like, could you please come on the podcast? And could I interview you? So grandma Peggy is the grandma to baby Lexi who just turned seven months old.

Katie Ferraro (22m 15s):

They're only like one week into baby-led weaning. This is when I love to talk to families. Like give it to me real. How's it going? What foods has she done? She's going to tell us all about their foray into first foods. They're working their way through the a hundred first foods list. This is grandma Peggy McGrath, the grandma of baby Lexi.

Peggy McGrath (22m 37s):

Thanks. I'm excited to talk about it as well.

Katie Ferraro (22m 40s):

Okay. So tell us your grandma's story. How many grandkids do you have? What's your, who talked you into baby led weaning also as why other questions.

Peggy McGrath (22m 49s):

Okay. So it's really my daughter that's doing the baby led weaning. She has two children, Isabella, who is almost nine, who is very, very picky eater and Lexi who is almost seven months. And she seems to like everything so far.

Katie Ferraro (23m 6s):

Okay. So you guys are about one week into baby led weaning, as I understand it, how's it going and be honest cause it's not always like pretty or perfect early on.

Peggy McGrath (23m 19s):

It's messy, very messy, but the baby's loving it. And who cares about a little bit of mess, right?

Katie Ferraro (23m 24s):

That's kind of how I feel, but I do understand some parents are like, the mess is a lot and say, okay, listen, our goal with baby led weaning is not to eliminate the mess, but there's a few things we can do to minimize the mess. So I know you've mentioned before that your husband kind of shakes his head at this whole thing. Is it the mess for him or what is it?

Peggy McGrath (23m 41s):

No, I think he just finds it odd because that wasn't the way that our daughter was, was fed. And it's not the way that our first granddaughter was.

Katie Ferraro (23m 50s):

So you guys are in Canada and I'm curious to know if you know, how did your daughter become aware of or interested in baby led weaning?

Peggy McGrath (23m 59s):

Well, her best friend who's a midwife has fed her three kids that way. She's very knowledgeable about lots of stuff. And th this was one of the things that, that she was promoting now, whether, whether that's kind of where it came out of, I, I'm not a hundred percent sure to tell you the truth. She also does lots of stuff. Lots of social media stuff too. So I know she's looked up a lot since she was pregnant with Lexi and yeah, so

Katie Ferraro (24m 27s):

That's pretty amazing. I have another friend who is doing baby led weaning with her fourth child. She also had an eight year gap like your daughter. And she said, gosh, you know, there's so much new gear. And so many things have changed. And the thing she was most excited about though, was baby led weaning because her older three are very, very selective eaters and she finds it really frustrating. So she said, I kind of going to try this, even though it's a little bit different, just because we have struggled so much with it. And now her, that baby's one. And she's like, he's still eating more foods than all the other kids combined. There's certain foods they don't like. Cause she said, I just want to have a bigger repertoire of foods that he will eat. So I think I always admire her parents who take a big break between kids. Cause it's hard to get started again.

Katie Ferraro (25m 7s):

Okay. So Peggy, when you started solid foods with your daughter, do you remember what you did or like what year was it if you don't mind sharing and what was the atmosphere around starting solid foods? If you can recall when you guys did that.

Peggy McGrath (25m 19s):

Okay. So Stephanie was born in July '90 and I think at the time, the old fashioned way of feeding, you know, you start with the cereal, then you go to the dark greens, baby food and you know, do the greens first and then the fruit and not too much of the pieces of things because they can't do

Katie Ferraro (25m 43s):

Oh, so you did traditional spoonfeeding, like where the parents put the spoon in the baby's mouth.

Peggy McGrath (25m 47s):

Yeah. And I said that to my daughter this morning because Lexi was having yogurt. And I said, you know, it's interesting. I mean, she can get spoon in her mouth with the yogurt. I mean, my, my daughter loads this spoon, but she can get it in there. And you know, like I said, it's messy, but it's really amazing that they can do it. That's also, why have we been all these years doing it for them? That's so silly.

Katie Ferraro (26m 12s):

Oh, that's beautiful. I just, I find myself saying that all the time is if you really think about like prior to the invention of commercial baby food in the earlier part of the 20th century, like what do you think parents for their babies? There's always been modified versions of the same foods, the rest of us eat. And I love that the baby led weaning spoon, the tiny spoon from ezpz was developed by their speech language pathologist. And she's a feeding expert and she's always talking about, you know, babies can learn to eat off of a spoon at six months of age and it's not really till you do it, then you realize like, oh yeah, they can totally do this. And they can do so many more things than we give them credit for. And babies can eat so many more foods than we give them credit for. But I feel you on the yogurt. Cause that's always like the messiest one for me to clean up. I always overlap yogurt day with bath day so that we cause the cleanup can be a little bit brutal.

Katie Ferraro (26m 56s):

So I want it go back to when we first connected you had taken my, I think baby led weaning for beginners workshop and we were emailing and I just get blown away by gear this grandmother fully committed to this idea of baby led weaning or you never know what, that's, how it seemed on email. Were you always onboard with the idea of baby led weaning for Lexi? Because I don't know a lot of grandparents who are, but I want to hear your story if you know, just when your daughter introduced it to you, what were your thoughts or your reactions?

Peggy McGrath (27m 23s):

I think at first I thought it was a bit odd. Cause I was wondering like, how is she going to be able to, first of all, I didn't even know what it was. So I, I wasn't when my daughter kind of explained it, it's like, okay, well sounds interesting. And, and that's kind of why I took your course because I wanted to find out more about it. Like if I'm going to be on board with something, I need to find out about it. So taking your course was the first step. And I was reading over my notes the other day that I took while I was doing the course. And it's like, oh well, that's interesting. Yeah. I forgot about that.

Katie Ferraro (27m 60s):

And they do change pretty quickly. Like what happens in the first few days is a little bit different than what happens in the next few weeks. Then, you know, as you move into phase two, the second eight weeks, it all kinds of changes. So I think some people just lump babies together, but there's a lot of little micro changes happening and we can change the offerings of the foods to match that. Now I know you guys just started, but can you tell me like off the top of your head, you mentioned yogurt, but what other foods has Lexi tried?

Peggy McGrath (28m 27s):

Yogurt, zucchini chicken, green beans, cucumber, strawberry, eggs, avocado, every cookie and toast with marscapone cheese.

Katie Ferraro (28m 34s):

All right. So I see three allergens in their wheat milk and egg. That's awesome. How did you guys do the egg? Do you know,

Peggy McGrath (28m 41s):

She started to scramble it? And then it's like, oh, I wasn't here when she did the egg, it was on the weekend and she started to do it. And then she kind of realized he was supposed to cut it in strips that you should have been making kind of an omelet. And, but she did end up getting it into some chunks that Lexi was able to hold on to. So it did work out. Okay. Lots came back out cause she got some big chunks, but yes, she seemed to like, it she's pretty much liked everything. Except my daughter said the banana the other day, wasn't all that much.

Katie Ferraro (29m 14s):

Pretty rare for a baby not to like a banana have to say that's when you don't hear about that often. But also the cool thing about babies is they haven't developed preferences yet, so we can continue to offer it a bunch of times and you never know, she might gravitate towards it. Exactly. But don't give up after that first trial we know from research, you know, there's different references out there, but it can take baby somewhere between 10 to 15 times before they like or accept a particular food. So hang in there with a banana. What about the chicken? I bet a lot of families are surprised to hear that in her first week of solid Lexi ate chicken. How has that prepared?

Peggy McGrath (29m 46s):

Well, we were having pork chops, everybody else, and her mum doesn't like pork chops. So her father made her chicken for herself. He barbecued it and she just, Stephanie just took some of the inside parts cause he put barbecue sauce and the whole bid on it. She just took somebody inside parts without the sauce. And she just gobbled it right up.

Katie Ferraro (30m 7s):

That's wonderful. And if you guys are doing chicken, the darker cuts of meat, we always go for it. Cause they're fattier and fat equates to moisture, right? It lubricates the protein of the meat makes it easier for the baby to swallow. So do those fatty pieces like the legs, the wings, the thighs, and you know, a little bit of barbecue sauce here and there. Not the end of the world. Babies don't have to eat bland food, but it's so cool that you could kind of just incorporate foods that the family was already eating, not everything right off the bat. But even from the beginning, there are a few foods, Hey, we were making this. So we had this and we did this to it. So the baby could eat it. That's so cool. Okay. Peggy, do you have any friends that are also grandmothers who are doing solid foods with their babies? Do you know anyone else doing baby led weaning or are you kind of like isolated?

Katie Ferraro (30m 48s):

They're doing this?

Peggy McGrath (30m 51s):

My niece did. So Stephanie's cousin. He turned a year in January. So he has been doing it for quite some time. And I mean, it's so funny because his, his one grandmother can't really tolerate the mess and even the father of the baby can't really tolerate the mess either, which is quite funny.

Katie Ferraro (31m 13s):

Well, I always say there's other ways they can help raise the child. Yeah.

Peggy McGrath (31m 16s):

Yeah. And they always want to wipe them off often. It's like, no, like just leave him. But yeah. I remember him with the yogurt all over his face and stuff. Yeah. It was really cute, but yeah. So she's the other one I've never talked to her about it really, but yeah. She's the only other one that I know.

Katie Ferraro (31m 31s):

Well, that's wonderful. And I love talking to people who are just starting because you're enthusiastic about it, but you're still like in the thick of it. So is there anything you are hesitant about or has your kind of heart skipped a beat for any particular reason as you guys have just made this transition with Lexi?

Peggy McGrath (31m 48s):

Well, I'm a bit concerned about the choking part. Okay. Not a big concern. I'm concerned about the choking part and this morning as she was having her toast and cheese, she was gagging a little bit and I'm thinking, I don't know, but like you're, her mom was right there and we were both right there watching her. So it was okay. And she managed to get out the big chunks, but she was kind of gagging on. So it was okay. So I don't know what I'm going to do when she really get something in a big chunk. But

Katie Ferraro (32m 18s):

Well, the kind of marvelous thing about this whole approach is that because we wait until they're six months of age or older and sitting on their own, we're offering soft, solid strips of food that the baby is self-pacing they have the ability to recover from a gag on their own. So you said, I don't know what I'm going to do, but the answer is you don't have to do anything. I sit on your hands, if you have to. And we say, you know, don't intervene. Don't lunge at the baby. Don't startle the baby. Cause you know, if you do that, causes them to, they lean back, they suck air in. And when you suck air in, you could potentially be taking that harmless gag. And it could actually cause it to become a harmful choke. So we just leave them alone during the gag. I know it's hard to watch, but it's so inspiring when they go right back to eating, right. They gag on a huge piece and you're like freaking out inside and they're like, no big deal.

Katie Ferraro (32m 60s):

I'm just going to pick it right back up. Exactly. Exactly. And that's how they very quickly get past that gagging. Now there will be some getting that will continue to happen in some babies have like trigger foods like, oh, I know one of our babies always gagged on cantaloupe. Didn't matter how soft it was even passed age one. So there will be some challenging foods, but that's not a sign that the baby can't eat it. They just need a little bit more practice with it. Okay. I want to ask you now about tips for other families because there are a lot of people listening who are like, that is so cool that Stephanie's mom is onboard with this and not every family is. So if you're, let's say Stephanie had a friend theoretically and she wanted to do baby led weaning, but her mom was not as open to it.

Katie Ferraro (33m 40s):

Any tips for parents as far as talking to their parents or in-laws or caregivers who might be resistant to the idea of baby led weaning?

Peggy McGrath (33m 47s):

Well, I think they have to see it to believe it because even though I did the course and I mean, I saw some of the little videos of the kids eating and stuff like that to actually see Lexi, be excited about the food and be trying to eat it. And it's just really cool. Like it's like, why have we been doing this for so long, the old way? And when this is so much better,

Katie Ferraro (34m 11s):

Then I would argue, this is the old way though. Don't you think? I mean, this

Peggy McGrath (34m 15s):

Is probably, it is. Yes. So this

Katie Ferraro (34m 16s):

Is just the, what we just call it something. Yes.

Peggy McGrath (34m 21s):

I was saying the old way was as what we did, but yeah, but even my granddaughter, I mean, she did the same there. Stephanie did the same thing with her, like the, the cereal, the fruit, the veggies in the jar, the meat in the jar.

Katie Ferraro (34m 37s):

This is the older child. This is

Peggy McGrath (34m 38s):

The eight year old. Yeah. The one that's so picky now. And then she also gave her, I know they used to come in the great big jars, the like the mix things like Mac and cheese in there and be stew. And that's her stuff she used to give her that sort of stuff.

Katie Ferraro (34m 52s):

Oh yeah. They called it like the different stages ones and they were just a bigger jar. Yeah.

Peggy McGrath (34m 57s):

Yeah. And I think that was convenient for her because she wasn't feeding her what they were eating, but this is so much better to feed them what you're eating.

Katie Ferraro (35m 4s):

And one thing that might be interesting is with Isabella is the older sister, is that correct?

Peggy McGrath (35m 10s):

Yes.

Katie Ferraro (35m 10s):

So Isabella, what we see sometimes now eight is a little bit older than a lot of babies have, you know, maybe two or three-year-old siblings, but it's not to say that there's not some principles here that would apply, but we know that children, when they're engaged in preparing foods are much more inclined to eat them themselves. And so as you guys are working through the hundred first foods with Lexi, if there's any way, Isabella can be involved in helping to prepare them or explaining what they are. I mean, sometimes for a competitive kids, we challenged them to try what the baby's also trying. It's just another way to get them more engaged in mealtime as well. It doesn't work for every kid and it's not gonna, you know, quote unquote undo her picky eating, but it might increase her opportunities to try new foods because she sees the baby doing it and is a part of that.

Katie Ferraro (35m 54s):

So I don't know how feasible it is to get Isabella involved in the food prep for some of these foods, but an eight year old, if she can make most of the foods on the hundred first foods list.

Peggy McGrath (36m 5s):

Yeah. She's quite enthusiastic about this whole feeding Lexi now. And her mother did tell her that everything Lexi tries, she has to try to now, I'm not sure how long that's going to last, but you know, and she's not always here because she's at school, right? So she's not always here when her mother is giving Lexi certain things, but hopefully she'll be into more things soon because it's a real pain in the neck to be making a separate dinner for her.

Katie Ferraro (36m 29s):

And I think that is kind of one of the key issues with baby led weaning as parents. It's one of the few things that appeals to second time parents, because you know, a first time parent, they kind of buy anything, buy into anything. And by the time they have a second baby, they're like, I know the gigs up, like babies don't eat a bunch of stuff. They don't need a lot of gear. There's a few things they need. But a lot of times these parents are like, I am dealing with picky eating with the older child and I would be willing to try something different. So what you describe as Stephanie's situation is pretty difficult that parents kind of fall into baby led weaning with their second baby. Cause they're looking for something to help curb the picky eating that they might be dealing with because yeah, no one has time to be cooking different meals for different family members for 17 and a half years.

Peggy McGrath (37m 9s):

Yes. Hopefully she'll grow up at that soon or we'll start making her, make her own food.

Katie Ferraro (37m 14s):

Exactly. Most of, I think you're going nice. You're lucky that you have a helper in the kitchen. And I just wanted to say thank you for sharing your story with our audience because so many families have grandparents who are involved in caregiving, which is wonderful. And having them be on board with baby led weaning certainly makes it a lot easier for certain parents. And then for those who aren't, I just love to hear your story. And I think what you say is so true that seeing really is believing. So I would encourage parents if you don't have a grandparent on board or who you, you know, I say yet, and you want to get them in that position is that you, as the primary feeder caregiver get comfortable with a few foods that your baby can eat and then invite other people in to observe. And they will be amazed by what the baby can do.

Katie Ferraro (37m 54s):

I mean, we're talking about this on the podcast, talking about it as one thing, but seeing it really is another thing.

Peggy McGrath (38m 1s):

Yeah. And doing courses like you were offering that like that really helped me understand it better to see how it could work and then to actually feed in person. It's like, oh, that is really cool.

Katie Ferraro (38m 11s):

Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. It was a pleasure speaking with you.

Peggy McGrath (38m 17s):

It was fun. He enjoyed it as well.

Katie Ferraro (38m 19s):

Thank you guys for listening. I do more grim episodes. That's for sure. I got to get some grandpas. They're always the ones they're a little bit harder to convert, but I know that they're out there. If you have a grandfather who likes baby led weaning or it even still hates it, we could do that episode too. I'd love to chat with them, but thank you again to Terry and to Peggy for coming on and sharing your experience. I know some parents might be like, oh, that is so not my mom or my mother-in-law actually interviewed my own mom on the podcast. I forgot about that. I did it for mother's day, like two years ago because my mom didn't like baby led weaning at the beginning either. She's like, I literally can't believe like now that you even have an entire career teaching parents how to do this. And I'm like mom for, you know, a lot of parents, there is a lot of anxiety surrounding the introduction of solid foods.

Katie Ferraro (39m 1s):

I want to bring the evidence and the science to show them the safe ways to do this. But if it makes you feel any better, my own mom did not like baby led weaning and she eventually came around and did end up liking it. So we've got a lot of moms specific interviews on the podcast. But if you want to listen to the fact it's episode, it's called interviewing my mom, how she didn't like BLW at first and why she changed. And that was a bonus episode we did in may of 2021 for mother's day. I'll link to that on the show notes page for this episode, BLW podcast.com/237. And then it also will link to that free workshop where I met both grandma Terry and grandma, Peggy that's baby led weaning for beginners, that signup page, baby led weaning.co or it'll be all over the show notes at blwpodcast.com.

Katie Ferraro (39m 46s):

So thanks for listening and big shout out to all the grandparents who are getting onboard with baby led weaning. I hope it makes your life easier. I love hearing from the parents who were like, oh, now my mom or my mother-in-law is bragging about the baby eating. And I know it's not always smooth sailing at first. So wishing you a lot of luck as you make this transition to solid foods with your baby or your grand baby. Thanks for listening.